Custom/Hybrid Total Loss Issue

Bobert540 · Jul 11, 2020

I’m battling an issue I’ve had since last fall. I just cleaned all the contacts on the s/s switch and also checked for spark which I do have but when I am riding the ski it just sounds like it’s on 1 cylinder and every so often it feels like the other cylinder is trying to kick in but doesn’t. This is a digital total loss system on a Yamaha 62t/61x setup. It has been bullet proof for the past 4 years and then one time last fall it just started acting up.

Looking for any suggestions please!

Would bad fuel cause this?

waxhead · Jul 11, 2020

what sort of system is it

Bobert540 · Jul 11, 2020

waxhead said:
what sort of system is it

MSD 42380 T/L with lightened flywheel.

Bobert540 · Jul 11, 2020

The only other thing I can think of is maybe a channel is bad?

Jr. · Jul 11, 2020

Sounds like the triggers are going bad? It happens when the wires are not supported and break right at the point they exit the module.

Bobert540 · Jul 11, 2020

Jr. said:
Sounds like the triggers are going bad? It happens when the wires are not supported and break right at the point they exit the module.

If both plugs seem to be showing spark, is it a matter of replace 1 trigger and see if it fixes it, if not try the other one? I have 1 new one here at the house.

Thanks for the help so far!

Jr. · Jul 11, 2020

If its duel channel, change both! With one being bad, the second is not far behind
Here is how I recommend reinforcing the wires, just hot glue stick

Bobert540 · Jul 11, 2020

Jr. said:
If its duel channel, change both! With one being bad, the second is not far behind
Here is how I recommend reinforcing the wires, just hot glue stick

Thanks for the tip! I will replace both and use the hot glue gun as added piece of mind. Do you have any recommendations on where to buy them? Surprising Blowsion seemed to be the least expensive with a quick search. Haven’t checked with Jetmaniac yet.

Jr. · Jul 11, 2020

I have them, forget the price right off?. Ill PM you on it shortly

Bobert540 · Aug 1, 2020

I replaced both pickups. I get spark randomly and sometimes when I let off of the start button. I checked the s/s switch 2 weeks ago and cleaned up all the connections unless something is faulty. Not sure what else to check unless the brain is shot. Thoughts?

Christian_83 · Aug 1, 2020

Well the MSD system is "rather" simple
Check all 12V connections (if you have a fuse inline on the red 12v+ i would check taht and also the conenction)
Ideally hard wire the system to the battery and see if that helps.
A buddy of mine had an intermidant issue wich ended up being a bad connectin with the inline fuse wire to the red 12v+ wire.

if its not pickup, and its not the 12V connections.
It can be coils, but could unfortunately be the brain.
Do you have aa brain you could try swapping it with?

Bobert540 · Aug 1, 2020

I didn’t check the fuse but I will. I assume it (fuse) works since it turn over and there is random spark. I don’t have another brain to test unfortunately but given I have checked all the connections I’m leaning towards and he brain being bad. I need to double check the air gap on the pickups.

Just puzzling how it went from working to intermittent spark when it ran to not having really any spark/weak spark.

I appreciate the help. My time is limited these days so wrench time doesn’t happen too often unfortunately and trying to get the ski running before fall surf.

Freakrider · Aug 1, 2020

Simply test your brain for consistent spark by jumping pickup wires leading to brain at the unplugged Deutsch connector. First intermittently jump brown to brown with a short wire with stripped ends and then secondly yellow to yellow with brain on and lanyard in. It should spark one plug for each test when you connect the circuit at pickup connections leading to brain.

Bobert540 · Aug 1, 2020

Freakrider said:
Simply test your brain for consistent spark by jumping pickup wires leading to brain. First intermittently jump brown to brown with a short wire with stripped ends and then secondly yellow to yellow with brain on and lanyard in. It should spark one plug for each test when you connect the circuit at Deutsch pickup connections leading to brain.

Thanks, I will try that tonight and see what happens. I don’t remember off the top of my head but do the brown and yellow wires go to a Deutsch connector?

Christian_83 · Aug 1, 2020

Bobert540 said:
I didn’t check the fuse but I will. I assume it (fuse) works since it turn over and there is random spark. I don’t have another brain to test unfortunately but given I have checked all the connections I’m leaning towards and he brain being bad. I need to double check the air gap on the pickups.

Just puzzling how it went from working to intermittent spark when it ran to not having really any spark/weak spark.

I appreciate the help. My time is limited these days so wrench time doesn’t happen too often unfortunately and trying to get the ski running before fall surf.

Well you can try or dont, it happened to my buddy @stefan and it was a bad connection with between the fuse wire "lump" and the red wire (12V+) from brain. Then we hardwired it (no fure) and it ran perfect.

Otherwise its just throw down the 800 usd for a new brain :S

Freakrider · Aug 1, 2020

Bobert540 said:
Thanks, I will try that tonight and see what happens. I don’t remember off the top of my head but do the brown and yellow wires go to a Deutsch connector?

Yes you will see going into the connector two brown wires, two yellows and two orange (unused third channel). You stick a short wire with stripped end into Deutsch connector tight into one brown and then only intermittently into other brown to complete circuit just like pickup does quickly causing spark. Make sure lanyard is in, brain plugged in and both plugs secured on top of head. Report back findings tonight if you can, good luck.

Note: to make the wire jumping even easier, you can pop off the 6 hole cap on the Deutsch connector by first rolling off rubber seal and then use a small screwdriver to pop off cap (that they call a wedge). This makes it easier to feed wire into the tubes.

Bobert540 · Aug 1, 2020

Freakrider said:
Yes you will see going into the connector two brown wires, two yellows and two orange (unused third channel). You stick a short wire with stripped end into Deutsch connector tight into one brown and then only intermittently into other brown to complete circuit just like pickup does quickly causing spark. Make sure lanyard is in, brain plugged in and both plugs secured on top of head. Report back findings tonight if you can, good luck.

Note: to make the wire jumping even easier, you can pop off the 6 hole cap on the Deutsch connector by first rolling off rubber seal and then use a small screwdriver to pop off cap (that they call a wedge). This makes it easier to feed wire into the tubes.

Well I got good spark by doing that test with the brown and yellow wires. Both plugs sparked like they should with the energy a T/L system puts out. So I am assuming my issue is somewhere from that Deutsch connector down to the pickups. I am going to rotate the flywheel and see if I get spark, check the air gaps and look at the magnet.

Anything else you can think of? Thank you all for your suggestions/help!

Update: I took the flywheel off changed the air gap and now I get spark when I crank over the ski. Went to start it and it almost kicks back like it wants to backfire. Could my timing be off? I don’t know where my timing was originally set because there was no mark made on the plate.

Bobert540 · Aug 2, 2020

JC-SuperJet said:
What is the Air Gap now? Must be between .050" and .095".

If the Gap is too tight, you might get an early spark (too much advance) as the magnet field will trigger the Pick-Up sooner; and if the Gap is too large, the magnet field will be to weak or faint to trigger the Pick-Up properly.

Grab some clay, put some clumps on top of the Pick-Ups and push and seat the Flywheel back on. Then remove the Flywheel and measure the Clay thickness. That represents the Air Gap. Adjust the shims to get the correct Air Gap.

I added the thinnest shim in the bag. I will try it again with removing that shim and see if I still get spark.

Jcary85 · Aug 2, 2020

Bobert540 said:
Update: I took the flywheel off changed the air gap and now I get spark when I crank over the ski. Went to start it and it almost kicks back like it wants to backfire. Could my timing be off? I don’t know where my timing was originally set because there was no mark made on the plate.

Plug wires reversed maybe? You’ll definitely need to reset your timing if you don’t know where the plate was. Do you know what the static timing was set at?

Bobert540 · Aug 2, 2020

Jcary85 said:
Plug wires reversed maybe? You’ll definitely need to reset your timing if you don’t know where the plate was. Do you know what the static timing was set at?

I don’t unfortunately. I know I am making an assumption that the plate didn’t move but it ran well for 4 solid years.

The reason I mentioned the shim thickness is because I can’t see how the thinnest shim can go from being too small of an air gap to too big.

I have reached the end of my skill set and when it comes to finding TDC and setting the static timing, I don’t feel comfortable doing it on my own. I’m a visual learner and understand the what and how but would like to have someone show me.

The other thing that happened when it kicked back a few times is a whole bunch of black sludge came out. I’m guessing because off all the starting and not running properly that the cases got loaded up.

If anyone is within a reasonable distance to Michigan I am happy to pay for your time.

Custom/Hybrid Total Loss Issue

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