DIY Total loss or MSD TL upgrade box 270USD?

waxhead said:

Im thinking your rectifier is no good

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Thank you - willtry with another rectifier

BostonSJ said:

He got back to me. Says it will be shipping Monday. So he's a 5 ish week turn around at this point.

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My order arrived in time - arround 4 weeks - but i'm in EU

yepp 3-4 weeks, it is coming from overseas ya know.

waxhead said:

Im thinking your rectifier is no good

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Pls let me know as soon as the adv map/testing for kaw 1100 engine is ready - thks

For any of you WaterDog Kustoms enthusiasts! I just finished installing and tuning a zeel PDCIS-02T CDI into a WDK 927 / GP800 based Power-plant in a ROKr hull. Installation was as straight forward as the 760 systems. Static angle matched the 760 @ 56*. The motor came to life and sounded better straight off compared to the WDK modified oem cdi it replaced. Client chose to keep the system charging and the flywheel unmolested for the time being. Once on the water, it was significantly better. Additional carb tuning, plus my tweeking the Wax curve, yielded
Additional gains. For any WDK enthusiasts running this motor? Seriously consider this upgrade.
Its worth it in my eyes!

I would like to thank Wax for his help along the way, and also Zach @ PHP for supplying me this unit .
Appreciate the help in getting my client back in the game quickly !

I can now see I need to start playing with the Zeel ignitions on my regular builds, to see what additional gains I can unleash?? Stay Tuned!

Ski Ya, Paul

Thanks Paul, thats great to hear it made a difference. Cheers for the heads up as well
On an side note Borut is working on the software tweak for these so you will no longer need to grind off the small lump

Cool can’t wait for that triple zeel

waxhead said:

Thanks Paul, thats great to hear it made a difference. Cheers for the heads up as well
On an side note Borut is working on the software tweak for these so you will no longer need to grind off the small lump

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Wax will I be able to upgrade existing? Have a flywheel I was going to grind off tomorrow. If the software is coming I'll just install it as is and update once its released?

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I do not know the answer to that.
Do you have a zeel now, You can run the stock cdi with the small lump removed. I have done this before. Dont quote me on it but it seemed to move the limiter higher as well

Brett Roman said:

Wax will I be able to upgrade existing? Have a flywheel I was going to grind off tomorrow. If the software is coming I'll just install it as is and update once its released?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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Seems like it's not very hard at all to grind off the bump and then you're good to go with no worries about when the upgrade may or may not come.

I am going to talk to borut later and ask him about if you will be able to select between 2-3 lumps in the software

Has anyone measured the Yamaha oem retard curve on the rear cylinder?
I was told that Yamaha triples twisted 2 to 4 degrees. So I am curious how
Yamaha handled twist on the 760. Was there any other sensor inputs to
determine the load? or do you think it only reacted to the rev limiter.

Wax, did you ever try the PJS type 2 ignition? The type 2 used two separate
boost circuits instead of one circuit fired twice. So there was 2 - 65kv sparks
about ~2ms apart. I mention the Type 2, because the justification for a dual
spark system is that normal CDI ignitions have a very short spark duration.

Have you noticed any draw backs with the Zeeltronic single spark system.

What is your opinion about 2 hypothetical Zeeltronic cdi's, one with a single
spark, and the other with a dual spark (like a type 2 with a curve).

Just read the entire thread, and I am still wondering if I could switch between
curve 1 & 2 while in a race? All that maters is whether or not the Zeeltronic
CDI will allow it to happen without missing a beat.

Also are the separate power valve/power jet wires intended to just activate a
control module or a transistor?

If I wanted to adapt a 2 channel system, with a max advance of 34 deg. How
long would the reluctor need to be? One hump, 34 deg. long?

A 2 channel Kawasaki street bike system from the 80's (as I recall) had 1 short
hump, and 1 long hump (on the reluctor). Any idea why?


Thanks

Bill M.

No I dont know anyone who has measured the retard on a 760 ignition I guess you could work it out based off the lump but it would be a guess not really that accurate and it would be hard to work with a timing light. I think its just the whole curve retarded but I don't know. I hear what your saying about twin the pjs and firing only once each curve and the potential benefits of that but in reality we don't rev that high maybe 7500 and that would be about the same as a 15000 rpm on a single if you were looking at spark rate. This is well within the range of a modern ignition coil and so not an issue really. you can hot swap curves with a zeeltronic while riding but if your going to change it a lot then its going to change the jetting requirement. I would more likely to use it as a rev limiter for the line so you can hold full throttle and then swap the curve when the bad breaks, not sure if my arms could take it.
Disadvantage so far with the zeeltronic is my swimming is not as good as it was with other ignitions due to it not leaving me swimming. I'm till not convinced its a disadvantage.
Re the pv question. This ignition does not control a pv but they do make one that does if you decide to go down that route. I have one of these on my triple and I was using it to turn on a fuel pump and the other circuit to turn on the bilge pump

The lump on the ignition is long enough to run up to about 50 degrees advance if you want it to. if anyone tries it please let me know how that works out haha.
I have never tried the pjs type 2 ignition but I have seen one. Were they programmable at all ??
If you have enough power to fire a clean burn I see no point in making more but you can almost arc weld with these things so I cant see these as an issue anyway

Good questions Wmazz I hope that answered it

@wmazz the ATP TS2 TL system has an option to fire twice.

Are you guys leaving the stator in place when switching from charging to TL? I have both flywheels from PHP and want to switch to TL to test it out but don’t want to remove the stator/wires/etc if it’s not necessary. Thanks!

Take the magnets out and happy days. You can leave the stator the way it is. The zeeltonic only uses one of the coils in the cover plus the pickup

Quinc said:

@wmazz the ATP TS2 TL system has an option to fire twice.

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I think it fires the same coil 10 degrees after wards, I cant see the point of that

@Quinc the ATP TS2 TL system has an option to fire twice.

Thank you Quinc, but I am working on a 750 X2.

@waxhead I think it fires the same coil 10 degrees after wards, I cant see the point of that.

Unless the ATP TS2 has a second boost converter and capacitor like the PJS Type 2
did, my guess is that it produces a weaker second spark like the MSD.

The reason for my initial post was to determine if the Zeeltronic ignition system
was a good fit for our lean burning 750 X2 project. I was planing on converting
the PJS 750 flywheel to trigger Zeeltronic ignition, and incorporate a water injection.
I am also looking at the Zeeltronic PDCI-232 (with separate ignition map for each
channel), so that I could retard the rear cylinder at wot if I thought it was helpful.

I wish they had more info about the PDCI-232 on the web site.


Bill M.

Something else about the Zeeltronic ignition that seems different from other total
loss systems is its small size. It must have a relatively small boost power supply and
capacitor, or found a way to build a circuit with less heat than other CDI total loss
ignitions. Heat kills electrical.

it will work on a 750 stock flywheel just fine, im ot sure about the pjs system as they were hall effect.

Pull the stock magnets out of a 750 flywheel and happy days

waxhead said:

i'm not sure about the pjs system as they were hall effect.

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That is why I asked about the reluctor on the Kawasaki street bikes

And you answered my question.

waxhead said:

The lump on the ignition is long enough to run up to about 50 degrees advance if you want it to.

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The PJS 750 flywheel looks like a platter or a SeaDoo 785 flywheel without the
magnets, or a Yamaha/Kawasaki flywheel with the magnets and lump completely
removed. All I need to do with the is make a reluctor to replace the PJS "gate style"
reluctor, and replace it with a reluctor with 1 lump. Then make a stator plate for 2
pick-up coils.

Or just use the stock flywheel and the PDCIS-02T as you suggested. My only
problem is my desire to include a water injection solenoid.


Wax, do you have a recommendation for setting up a 9000rpm rev limiter??
I am interested in what you recommend versus a hard 9000rpm limit.

Is there an advantage to a soft rev limiter on a closed course jet ski race.


Bill M.

It would be interesting to use a power jet as a 550 style rev limiter