DYI Total loss or MSD TL upgrade box 270USD?

Christian_83

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#1
So, after reading a bit on:
http://www.x-h2o.com/index.php?threads/diy-total-loss-on-a-budget.166929/
and
http://www.x-h2o.com/index.php?threads/msd-enhancer-vs-protec-modded-cdi.183691/

I discovered that @waxhead had found a very nice fully programable Ignition box, that could do everything "we need" and then some.
http://www.zeeltronic.com/
Is making CDI or ECU boxes, almost to what ever need one might have. is fully programable through usb and PC or handheld programmer. Can be 1-3 cylinder controller.
Im 99% sure that is that box, the JSTL is using.
Would there be any interest in a a box, that would replace the MSD TL box. ideally so all other MSD parts could be used. pickups, pickupplate, flywheel and coils?
If the pickups is not useable, might need to switch to hall effect sensor, and replace those with the MSD pickups.
Im trying to figure out whats possible. Im just curious if this could be done easy and cheap. Im not here to make money.
The Box that im looking at now, is retailing at 220euro wich is roughly 270 USD.

PDCI-24V.jpg
Skærmbillede 2018-01-30 kl. 19.47.07.png
 
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#3
Check out the Ignitech DC CDI P2 race box too. It's programmable and can do everything we need it to do, $174. Apparently reliability is a concern though...
 

Christian_83

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#4
Okai, Waxhead has been running the Zeeltronic for around 3 years now i think, and no issues.
Im just curious about the interest in a newer type ignition controller? I thought about buying a setup and do some bench testing like OCD did.
Like i said, i would not do this to label them with my brand and sell them for 2x the price. Just could be cool to actually get a nice product, that didn't have a custom freestyle jetski price tag lol.
 

waxhead

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#5
I have used this ignition box on plenty of skis.
I use a 760 front cover on the twins with a 760 flywheel.
You simply remove the small lump from the flywheel and away you go( they have 3 lumps)
the pickup angle is 54 degrees from memory but I would have to confirm that.
If you use a gp800 electrical box the zeeltronic will fit right in there you grind the ears off the ignition box and it slips into the little rubber unit that holds the gp800 cdi in there. very simple, The wiring is very easy and you can also use two flywheels one if you want charging and one if you want total loss
Take the magnets out of the stock flywheel it becomes total loss.

For the triple its easy you don't even have to remove any lumps as it has three pickups.

All these systems run the stock coil and wiring. do not worry that the stock coil will not handle it, its been running for 3 years on my system.
Also don't believe that a different coil will make more spark or any more that makes a difference. The coil is fired on a cdi by an rising voltage in the primary windings. the size of the rising voltage is created by the cdi and the zeeltronic will give a spark that you can hear and feel, In fact the thing is a damn tazer
 
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#8
The system i am running now you can remove the 760 cdi from the ebox and trim the mount so the zeltronics will fit in the 760 stock rubber mount. Ask for an extension wire for the programmer and feed it out through the fuse hole to be able to program without opening your ebox. I'd have o look and see what model im running again. It is a stock PLUG and PLAY system and will plug directly into the 760 harness. You just have to specify the correct connector and it will come assembled. I took the magnets out of the flywheel and lightened to run it as a tl setup and its been going strong for 2 years.
 

waxhead

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#9
The system i am running now you can remove the 760 cdi from the ebox and trim the mount so the zeltronics will fit in the 760 stock rubber mount. Ask for an extension wire for the programmer and feed it out through the fuse hole to be able to program without opening your ebox. I'd have o look and see what model im running again. It is a stock PLUG and PLAY system and will plug directly into the 760 harness. You just have to specify the correct connector and it will come assembled. I took the magnets out of the flywheel and lightened to run it as a tl setup and its been going strong for 2 years.
That sounds awesome. I would love to know what unit you're using. please keep us informed im about to buy another for an fx1 im building
 
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#13
PDCIS-01T is the model i didnt write down what connector to use. If you talk to the guy at zeltronics and send him a picture of the stock 760 harness connector he will match it for you. There is a connector page on his website that you can match to.
 

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waxhead

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#14
That's wicked thanks
I was using the PDCI-11 but it didn't plug in, the 760 uses the same style plugs as the sxr so this should work on that as well assuming the wiring was the same.
 

waxhead

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#15
Did you wire it up with an off off switch or just leave on all the time, The draw when they are off is tiny

stand-by current draw < 0.09 Amp
 
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#16
I used a standard rotary on off switch. I used the black pink(?) wire from the overheat sensor to feed the 12v to the switch to keep the box sealed. Then connected the pink to the old gauge cluster 12v+ off the harness that was not in use so no external wires. I did not want the cdi on all time incase it burnt out/something shorted.
 
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#17
I'm planning on doing exactly as Waxhead suggests with the 760 cover and flywheel, and having one flywheel to run as a total loss and another charging to compare.

One question, since this seems like a good place to ask, there are a couple of options on which exact zeeltronics unit to use. One of the major differences is that some of them trigger only on the (+) signal (the leading edge of the "lump") so the advance is always calculated based on how long to delay from the leading edge, even at cranking or at idle when the rotational velocity is very unsteady, so the calculation is not very accurate. OR, some units allow triggering off of the trailing edge of the "lump" when at low rpms, so the timing at cranking and idle is determined by the physical geometry of the flywheel, then switches at some rpm to triggering off of the leading edge and calculating the timing.

I'm not sure if the geometry of the 64x flywheel would result in acceptable timing for cranking and idle with the location of the trailing edge of the "lump" but I also don't know if it is an issue at all to just use the calculated timing from the leading edge at all times. The potential issue would be kickback, but Borut seemed to think it *probably* wouldn't be an issue.


PDCI-11 is a "leading edge only" unit and the PDCIS-01T has the option to go either way.

Sounds like Wax used the PDCI-11, so apparently there were no issues with leading edge only triggering?

Alex do you know which type of triggering you used? "(+) only" or "(+) and (-)"?





From Borut:

PDCIS-01T has programmable "+", or "+&-", so you can select option.
Lobe leading edge is for static angle and trailing edge is starting advance.
Flywheel rotation speed is very unstable at starting speeds and that cause inaccurate ignition advance calculation, which can lead to kickback.
With wasted spark ignition and electric starter, kickback usually is not a problem.
Regards,
Borut
 
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#20
Well that's pretty clear. Thanks guys.

One more question... Ever play around with using a throttle position sensor?
 
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