Super Jet Is this everything I need to reinforce and add footholds?

[Quinc]

Have a hairline crack going through to bottom of my hull. And figure if I am going to pull the engine I might as well reinforce the whole thing. And add footholds, dig the wet foam out of the tray etc.

Here is the list I have gathered so far and I am hoping people with experience can critique it and let me know if I have enough or too much.

Prices from: http://www.shopmaninc.com/cloth.html
Material:

• To reinforce the hull 3 yrds 17[SIZE=-1]oz 1708 biaxial[/SIZE][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1] stitched at 45degrees or should I go with 12oz?[/SIZE][/SIZE]
• 3 yards 8oz twill
• Not sure how much or what weight for footholds and tray
• How much cabosil and microspheres?
• Pink foam from home depot, is this stuff everyone uses? http://www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-Co...-Squared-Edge-Foam-45W/100320352#.UiVeiT_9XQs

Should I get two part foam too?

• Rivets for Footholds

Is 1 gallon of EPOXY Resin 635314 3-1 medium, and 42.6oz of hardener enough for both reinforcing and footholds or should I go with more?

• Should I get fiberglass cloth tape?

Tools:
-3-1 Ratio Pumps $6.75
-100 pack of gloves
-bondo spreaders
-Cheap HF brushes.
-Respirator
-Fiberglass Roller (Thanks Vumad!)

Any recommendations on tools to make the job easier?


Also what about S-glass instead of E-glass?
6oz S Glass
Style 6533
Plain Weave
Thickness: 0.0089
$7.40 a yard

"S-Glass will has the same working qualities as a standard E-glass, however you will gain an approximate 25-30% increase in breaking strength. Used in applications where the most possible strength is required while keeping weight to a minimum"

Also has anyone reinforced with aluminum before? I have access to aluminum about as thick as a road sign that I could use as well.

 

[Quinc]

Two more questions:
Is there anything else I should do while I have the engine out?

What is the best paint to use inside the hull that will hold up to gas and oil etc? I would like to go with a light gray or off white color.

 

[ProSouth]

acetone. to clean all the oil and grease out.
depending on the motors age, i would do gaskets and a fresh hone/rings in the engine. not necessary, but a good piece of mind

 

[Little Trumps Super Jet]

Reglass your cracked pole.

 

[Mdavies_02]

Interlux for painting the engine compartment. Sandpaper, respirator, safety glasses, mixing cups. Can't think of anything else.

 

[Quinc]

acetone. to clean all the oil and grease out.
depending on the motors age, i would do gaskets and a fresh hone/rings in the engine. not necessary, but a good piece of mind

That is a great idea. I need to call jetmaniac and see about porting too.

Reglass your cracked pole.

Bought an aluminum pole instead.

Interlux for painting the engine compartment. Sandpaper, respirator, safety glasses, mixing cups. Can't think of anything else.

Plan for sanding is a die grinders.

I can I use the epoxy to fill nicks and gouges on the bottom of the hull, or is there something better?

 

[Joker]

I can I use the epoxy to fill nicks and gouges on the bottom of the hull, or is there something better?

Use epoxy resin and microballons.

 

[Vumad]

Interlux for painting the engine compartment. Sandpaper, respirator, safety glasses, mixing cups. Can't think of anything else.

Definitely should use a respirator. Don't get a cheaper $3 drywall mask. Something like this should do. $30. Not professional grade. Safety gear is important. Buy the best you can afford. This should work well for a one time small time job.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Tekk-...-Respirator-65021HA1-C/202080143#.UiUxiDasiSo

Use epoxy resin and microballons.

50/50 cabosil and microspheres is better. Microspheres make it easy to sand but it's hard to get that bondo-paste-like consistancy. Cabosil will make it a lot easier to get the right consistancy.




Fiberglass roller.

Not sure the difference b/t S-glass and e-glass, but I almost exclusively use biax cloth.

And what are these ratio pumps? I guess they can work good? I pour each part into a 0.50 measure cup. For small mixes, I put into a yogurt cup, they are coated and the dried residue pops right out. For bigger jobs I use old butter tubes, same deal. Recycle.

 

[Joker]

50/50 cabosil and microspheres is better. Microspheres make it easy to sand but it's hard to get that bondo-paste-like consistancy.

I don't like 50/50 it is too hard to sand.

 

[Quinc]

Definitely should use a respirator. Don't get a cheaper $3 drywall mask. Something like this should do. $30. Not professional grade. Safety gear is important. Buy the best you can afford. This should work well for a one time small time job.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Tekk-...-Respirator-65021HA1-C/202080143#.UiUxiDasiSo



50/50 cabosil and microspheres is better. Microspheres make it easy to sand but it's hard to get that bondo-paste-like consistancy. Cabosil will make it a lot easier to get the right consistancy.




Fiberglass roller.


Not sure the difference b/t S-glass and e-glass, but I almost exclusively use biax cloth.

And what are these ratio pumps? I guess they can work good? I pour each part into a 0.50 measure cup. For small mixes, I put into a yogurt cup, they are coated and the dried residue pops right out. For bigger jobs I use old butter tubes, same deal. Recycle.

Thank you for the info! I am deff going to buy that mask and the fiberglass roller? Is 4" a good size or should I go bigger/smaller?

I switched over to biax and decided to go ahead and do footholds too. Any guestimates of how many yards I should get? Also should I go with all 17oz or should I do 8oz, 10oz, and 12oz?

[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]3-1 Ratio Pumps - Identical pumps, to have a accurate measurement they need to be pumped at a ratio of 3 pumps on the resin side to 1 pump on the hardener side.[/SIZE][/SIZE]

 

[Joker]

4 inch rollers is good

I would use 1208 biax for everything. Trying to reinforce with 1708 will be a huge pain because it doesn't conform really well. Just an fyi. When I go to reinforce my ski this winter I'm going to use S glass. The s glass is also really expensive at $14 a yard for 6781 and that's the best Lind to use for reinforcements.

S glass is like 30% stronger than E glass.

 

[Vumad]

Thank you for the info! I am deff going to buy that mask and the fiberglass roller? Is 4" a good size or should I go bigger/smaller?

I switched over to biax and decided to go ahead and do footholds too. Any guestimates of how many yards I should get? Also should I go with all 17oz or should I do 8oz, 10oz, and 12oz?

[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]3-1 Ratio Pumps - Identical pumps, to have a accurate measurement they need to be pumped at a ratio of 3 pumps on the resin side to 1 pump on the hardener side.[/SIZE][/SIZE]

I think the roller I use is 3". A little more work but 4" might be a bit too big for smaller areas like the foot holds. If money isn't that big a deal, get a 2", a 4" and a corner roller. 3" is all I used for a while until I added a corner roller to my box.

I think 1208 biax is the lightest you can get. I haven't used a lot of different glasses but so far 1208 is my favorite. Chop is a mess and not very strong, woven doesn't like to conform to rounded areas. Biax is stronger and its the easiest I have worked with.

How many yards is up to you. Measure it out. You learned how to work with fiberglass in the second grade. It's just paper machete, except you try to cover the balloon in as few pieces as possible, with as little glue as possible.

I'm not going to comment on the measuring tool. I don't know anything about it and the price isn't high enough for me to try to convince you to save money on it. I personally haven't had any issues cutting corners there.

I don't like 50/50 it is too hard to sand.

Very valid point.

 

[Quinc]

I think the roller I use is 3". A little more work but 4" might be a bit too big for smaller areas like the foot holds. If money isn't that big a deal, get a 2", a 4" and a corner roller. 3" is all I used for a while until I added a corner roller to my box.

I think 1208 biax is the lightest you can get. I haven't used a lot of different glasses but so far 1208 is my favorite. Chop is a mess and not very strong, woven doesn't like to conform to rounded areas. Biax is stronger and its the easiest I have worked with.

How many yards is up to you. Measure it out. You learned how to work with fiberglass in the second grade. It's just paper machete, except you try to cover the balloon in as few pieces as possible, with as little glue as possible.

I'm not going to comment on the measuring tool. I don't know anything about it and the price isn't high enough for me to try to convince you to save money on it. I personally haven't had any issues cutting corners there.



Very valid point.

Good point on the measuring I am just not sure how many layers to do? Also If I should do 1 layer of 17oz 1 layer of 12oz and 1 layer of 8oz or just 2-3 layers of 17oz or if that is over kill? I only ride flat water and might make a trip to pismo at some point in my life.

Also with foam my plan is to use the pink stuff for the tray and the 2 part for the footholds. Would 4 cubic feet of 4LB Density urethane be enough?

 

[Sparkplug]

I've done 17oz on 3 hulls. Like mentioned its hard to get it to shape and uses a lot of resin. Super strong
though.

I put baby powder from wal mart in the epoxy. Works fine. Seeal the bond line all up with that, while wet, I lay 1 piece of 17oz the entire length of 1 side, overlapping into the bottom. Super strong afterwards.


I will be doing 12 oz next time. to give it a try.

 

[Joker]

4 cubic feet should be more than enough. Your literally doing half of the gunwhales which is like a cubic foot on each side (On the high side).

Btw 6781 glass wets outs easier than 1208, uses less resin, and is almost as strong as 1208 at 3/4 of the weight.

And tom21 is using a similar glass for the new fx1 hulls

 

[mthomps]

If you refoam use the foam talked about in 227's thread. http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/107635...-refoaming-your-superjet-soon-read-this-first

Should I get two part foam too?

Yes you need it to install footholds properly. It will fill all the little gaps that water could possibly get in to. When I installed footholds on my superjet this past winter the foam was dry enough, so I didn't bother cutting the entire tray out and going through that hassle. I just drilled 4 holes (2 each side) on the top of the gunwales after the footholds were installed. I poured the 2 pt foam in to one side and taped of that sides holes. To my surprise the foam made its way to the other gunwale and almost shot out of it! When it's expanding it will find the path of least resistance and fill any and all voids reassuring you that as much of the voids are sealed up as possible.

Per a riding buddies suggestion I went with 6oz s glass and it was fantastic to work with. I put on 3 layers and 4 in the corners. I also reinforced the tray with 1 layer because it felt flimsy. It came out solid as a rock.

A suggestion for mixing your resin and hardener. Don't use 2 separate containers for each part because when you pour, the remainder left in each cup leaves you with an inaccurate measurement. I think it's better to pour the resin in to the mixing cup followed by the hardener to insure the most accurate ratio possible without using pumps.

 

[Quinc]

I have been doing more searching and reading build threads, what does fiberglass with mat mean?

Does anyone know of any writeup on how to do a rockered nose? I know you can buy a rockered nose but I rather not spend 300$ on it.

Also should I reinforce the rear of the hull under the tray and around the pump?

Thank you for all the replies! Looks like 12oz biaxal and 6oz S-glass are the way to go.

 

[mthomps]

Also should I reinforce the rear of the hull under the tray and around the pump?

I can't recall ever reading a thread where that was done. Good question...

One more thing I suggest is take the time to sand away all gelcoat the new glass touches and not just rough it up. I'd be paranoid because if the gelcoat cracks after say, a hard landing, your new composite structure is worthless. I sanded strait down to the metton top deck on most of the tray and definitely anywhere a wet piece of cloth touched.

 

[Joker]

Ya for a rockered nose there are two ways to do it.

1. Split the decks, cut a ton of grooves perpendicular to the hull, then shove a bunch of shims in it to your liking. Then correct the top deck to fit.

2. Cut the whole nose off use some cardboard and two part foam to get yourself a rough idea of the nose. Then sand it until it looks good. Cover in bondo and then wax it and then lay glass and remove foam.

 

[tom21]

I can't recall ever reading a thread where that was done. Good question...

One more thing I suggest is take the time to sand away all gelcoat the new glass touches and not just rough it up. I'd be paranoid because if the gelcoat cracks after say, a hard landing, your new composite structure is worthless. I sanded strait down to the metton top deck on most of the tray and definitely anywhere a wet piece of cloth touched.

not sure that is really necessary, gelcoat is just colored resin. but it doesnt have the glass reinforcement in it. the glass can flex a good deal while the gelcoat not as much. hairline cracks in the gelcoat are just that. they are not structural damage, and besides if the reinforcement is laid over it then it will really be hard to flex it to the point it cracks. And if this is all just for the footholds, pfft. now if we were talking a newer sj, which seem to be painted, that comes off in sheets, def sand all that crap away. lol same w a hood.

scuff it up, put some thickened epoxy behind the holds and screw or rivet em in. lay some glass over it and done. foam after resin cures. turf and ride it.