True girdle kit for ADA

[duckman1]

Any interest in a real girdle kit for the ADA Yamaha heads? Talking no cheezy studs that let water/salt water sit on your case threads, plus being able to remove the head without worrying about your buddy hitting your cylinder and breaking your base gasket seal.

I'm looking into making these available if there is any interest, please let me know. No idea on price yet, hopefully less than the ADA kit.

Steve

 

[Jr.]

Any interest in a real girdle kit for the ADA Yamaha heads? Talking no cheezy studs that let water/salt water sit on your case threads, plus being able to remove the head without worrying about your buddy hitting your cylinder and breaking your base gasket seal.

I'm looking into making these available if there is any interest, please let me know. No idea on price yet, hopefully less than the ADA kit.

Steve

Steve, The definition of a true girdle, is to "capture" the cyl between the case & head, thus releving any & all pressure from the cyl flange area it's self. What I'm assuming you are going to do is have a base sex bolt set-up to seal the flange area from water intrusion? Am I correct?
If so, you are not solving the problem at all. You will still have cyl base cracking! This problem is common place with Riva & similar girdle type methods. If you are looking to seal the flange base, simply install an o-ring?
While I admire your efforts to solve a so called problem, look at the reason ADA devoloped the girdle the way they did. To Stop cyl base cracking? It works!

ski ya, Paul

 

[duckman1]

Thanks for the lesson Paul, guess i'm the loser here. I thought it was just because it/they were cheap, such as having the head shell made in China. Your definition of my idea is correct, but I'm going to stick by my guns on this one. I still feel this is a better set-up, and have yet to see one with this type of set-up break. Call me lucky.....

So what are your thoughts of the Kawasaki girdle kits being offered by ADA and others with a flange that comes out away from the cylinder?

 

[Jr.]

Thanks for the lesson Paul, guess i'm the loser here. I thought it was just because it/they were cheap. Your definition of my idea is correct, but I'm going to stick by my guns on this one. I still feel this is a better set-up, and have yet to see one with this type of set-up break. Call me lucky.....

So what are your thoughts of the Kawasaki girdle kits being offered by ADA and others with a flange that comes out away from the cylinder?

Please don't misunderstand, I'm just offering constructive critisism. No one is ever a loser in trying to build a differant kind of mousetrap. Thats the kind of thinking that spawns better ideas. I'm actualy applauding you.

The only way that the type of girdle you are refering to will work, is to follow & maintain a strict torque sequence. But having "everyday mechanics" cheat & build incorrectly, the failures are inevitable!

As for the ADA/TBM kawi girdles........
The technical term for that type of girdle is "Trussing" Yes, it will work, but only if done according to a strict torque sequence. The kawi flange offers a unique situation compared to a Yamaha. The base bolting area doesnt line up as the Yamaha does, So you either need to offset, like ADA/TBM, or to Clip the cyl upper area as the speedworks girdle requires.
Given the choice? I would use the truss system. But they all have their down falls.

ski ya, Paul

 

[FLY6584]

No one is ever a loser in trying to build a differant kind of mousetrap. Thats the kind of thinking that spawns better ideas. I'm actualy applauding you.

I wish more people had that kind of attitude on this site. Appreciate you leading the way Paul.:biggthumpup:

 

[sflsurfrider]

new ideas are great but if youre going to copy rivas girdle kit, dont bother. they suck ass.

ada is the ONLY way to go.

 

[duckman1]

new ideas are great but if youre going to copy rivas girdle kit, dont bother. they suck ass.

ada is the ONLY way to go.

Actually my idea has nothing to do with Riva. I seldom use anything they produce.

Just wondering what pro racers/pro builders use the ADA system? Not being an A-hole, just asking, as I haven't personally seen any. Surely someone does?

 

[Jr.]

Actually my idea has nothing to do with Riva. I seldom use anything they produce.

Just wondering what pro racers/pro builders use the ADA system? Not being an A-hole, just asking, as I haven't personally seen any. Surely someone does?

My entire team runs the ADA heads! I don't sell or stock anything else.
I belive Chuck from Team Scream feels the same. As I know most of his guys run ADA.

 

[demolition_x]

so what would be the right size threads and stud length needed for this to work?

i like the ada way and i have the riva kit if your interested duckman.

 

[nikad58]

O-rings ?? I just pack it with grease !!

 

[duckman1]

Please don't misunderstand, I'm just offering constructive critisism. No one is ever a loser in trying to build a differant kind of mousetrap. Thats the kind of thinking that spawns better ideas. I'm actualy applauding you.

The only way that the type of girdle you are refering to will work, is to follow & maintain a strict torque sequence. But having "everyday mechanics" cheat & build incorrectly, the failures are inevitable!

As for the ADA/TBM kawi girdles........
The technical term for that type of girdle is "Trussing" Yes, it will work, but only if done according to a strict torque sequence. The kawi flange offers a unique situation compared to a Yamaha. The base bolting area doesnt line up as the Yamaha does, So you either need to offset, like ADA/TBM, or to Clip the cyl upper area as the speedworks girdle requires.
Given the choice? I would use the truss system. But they all have their down falls.

ski ya, Paul

Thanks for your input Paul. Have you heard anything about the "trussing" causing crank bearing failures on the SS SXR's? In the past, the kits such as Speedwerx had no major issues with crank bearing failures, since these and others like them have dissapeared from the market, the crank bearing issue has arose at an alarming rate. I may be wrong, but I think that the JSU head is the only one on the market right now for the SXR's that does not use the truss system. Speculation has it that the trussing system acts as a lever and puts undue pressure on certain points on the cases in the bearing race area, thus causing the oem outer bearings to fail. The ceramic bearings have helped alieve this issue to some extent, as does extensive bracing, but it's still happening. The good ceramic bearings are in excess of $100 each while an oem list for $26 and change. Some have tried the cheaper ceramic, only to have things blow. It's been found using the JSU or Speedwerx type girdle kit, has greatly increased the lifespan of the cranks, thus blowing the truss theory.

I'm not an engineer, nor do I claim to know much of anything, but I do know that using what I think you called the sex bolt system is a tad more complex than what your initial post would indicate. You still have harmonics that come into play with these, and the bolt coming thru and threading into the lower stud unit still relieves alot of stress on the base flange area. The simple stud unit used by ADA does sound great the way you wrote it, but consider this. The cylinder has no other support than the studs and acorn nuts coming down thru the head, basically it's free floating, thus prone to more vibration, and less rigidity, inviting failure in cases and possibly other areas.

 

[duckman1]

My entire team runs the ADA heads! I don't sell or stock anything else.

Not many others to sell or stock anymore. I personally don't use them on my machines, and I get them at cost. None of my riders use them. Guess that doesn't really mean anything one way or another, just personal preference. So what pro riders do you sponsor?

I belive Chuck from Team Scream feels the same. As I know most of his guys run ADA.

I believe your right Paul, I know Chuck also seems to use these. Do most of his guys ride freestyle, or does he have a few cc riders also?


But my question was what "PRO" rider or "PRO" builder? I'm not knocking you or Chuck at all, and not saying your not Pro's, no disrespect intended. I'm looking for something in the arena as say Factory Kawasaki, Factory Yamaha, SeaDoo? I know these aren't around anymore, but they were at the same time ADA was. Builders of the other older pro riders machines, or new pros for that matter. ADA has been around for along time. Guessing Hedlund, Bo, Farthing, Rius, others could have used any thing they wanted, but never saw an ADA head on one of their machines. I may be wrong, just haven't seen them on these machines

 

[sflsurfrider]

2 words.....

yam

aha

 

[nikad58]

Well i can tell you "back in the day" Top factory Pro racers engines were never ran more than 2 hours !! The pactice boat they ran were NOT the same as their race engines.. It wasnt a matter of "useing anything they want" it was a matter of useing what was free to use ! Complete rebuilds happened before every race ! take Jeff Jacobs.. He has been selling lots of stuff with only 1-2 hours on it.. thats all they would use it for ! .. Factory teams had Japan as a spare parts bin..

As free riders and rec. riders (most of us are) we need over 100-300 hours on a engine before things start to fly apart !

sorry to jump in but.. welll thats just me !

Im not backing anyone and on my low compresion (160-175) engines I run billet pro-tec's with 3 peice studs.. no problems here but then again.. I run LOW compression pump gas engines..

 

[FLY6584]

Not many others to sell or stock anymore. I personally don't use them on my machines, and I get them at cost. None of my riders use them. Guess that doesn't really mean anything one way or another, just personal preference. So what pro riders do you sponsor?




I believe your right Paul, I know Chuck also seems to use these. Do most of his guys ride freestyle, or does he have a few cc riders also?


But my question was what "PRO" rider or "PRO" builder? I'm not knocking you or Chuck at all, and not saying your not Pro's, no disrespect intended. I'm looking for something in the arena as say Factory Kawasaki, Factory Yamaha, SeaDoo? I know these aren't around anymore, but they were at the same time ADA was. Builders of the other older pro riders machines, or new pros for that matter. ADA has been around for along time. Guessing Hedlund, Bo, Farthing, Rius, others could have used any thing they wanted, but never saw an ADA head on one of their machines. I may be wrong, just haven't seen them on these machines

What heads were those pro riders running?

 

[nikad58]

What heads were those pro riders running?

Who ever paid you the most !

 

[duckman1]

What heads were those pro riders running?

All types, most have gone out of business. None use the ADA girdle system that I can remember, hence my question.

My three riders won four National tiltles this year, two first, and two seconds. Two of those were in womens limited classes on stock machines=stock heads. Am I saying that because of this, stock heads are the best? No, doesn't really matter what you have, just comes down to preference.

This is not me bashing ADA heads, I'm simply am offering an alternative girdle system for those who wish to use something else. If you like what you have great, keep it, if not, I may be able to help.

Steve

 

[Scorn800]

Duckman-
R&D cast heads for an SXR use the JSU style girdle.
I've also heard the truss style girdle is not a good idea on the sxr.
I have know idea about Yamaha's. I only ride green.

 

[sflsurfrider]

for the record, im using ada girdle kits on my speedwerx and riva heads.

im not using the 3pc riva-like hardware due to multiple 'snappings'.

 

[Watty]

I've got nothing constructive to say apart from....sweet thread!