reed spacer or stuffer?

Just save up and buy a set of VForce-2 reeds. They are really worth all the money.

I wouldn't bother with stuffers but reed spacers are supposed to extend the life of CF reeds. I only use VForce-2 reeds on mine.
 

adet16v

No like winter
I found some real cheap reed stuffers and reed spacers, which ones should i get if i had to choose one or the other?

what does each do?

how difficult are they to instal?

I remember Harry Klem of GroupK having some technical information on reed stuffers and reed spacers. I tried to find it for you on his website but no luck...

I believe he said through his testing one was highly effective and the other was highly in-effective.... can't remember which though. I will look some more.

Aaron
 

nikad58

1974 YZ 701
Reeds - The aftermarket is full of replacement reed petals and cages for all three of the different Super Jet lower ends. The main considerations for alternative reed petals are performance, longevity, and side effect damage from petal failure.

Yamaha employs stainless steel reed petals in all the 6M6 and 61X cased Super Jets. Some of the 62T cased Super Jets came with stainless steel petals, and some with non- metallic "fiber" reed petals. The stainless steel material is used because it has an outstanding flexibility to weight ratio, the metal material seals exceptionally well against the rubber coated reed cages. Regardless of which material Yamaha chose, all the stock Yamaha reed petals offer excellent overall power characteristics. From a sheer performance standpoint, there are no aftermarket reed petals that out perform the stock petals by any big margin. All the stock Yamaha reed petals also offer exceptionally good long-term reliability.

Unfortunately, after enough service time, the stainless steel metal reeds can eventually fracture and break apart. When these stainless steel petals break, and circulate through the engine, they have the ability to cause serious damage to virtually all the internal engine moving parts (pistons, bearings, etc). If a fiber reed petal breaks apart, the engine easily "digests" the material resulting in no engine damage at all. While this reed petal fracturing is not a big problem on stock engines, the added pressures of high performance modification can significantly shorten a metal reed petal’s life.

For most recreational riders, the stock stainless steel reeds (replaced every 2 seasons) are likely the best overall performance value. However for any owner preparing a Limited 2, or Big Bore racing engine, we would recommend the use of non-metallic reed petals. Owners of 62T lower ends can simply purchase the stock Yamaha fiber petals used in the later models. For 6M6 and 61X case owners that wish to convert to fiber petals, we recommend the reeds from Carbon Tech. In this application, the Carbon Tech reeds appear to offer the best aftermarket mix of good performance, good longevity, and good cage sealing. Carbon Tech offers different material tensions for their reed petals. The "LT" (low tension) petal should be used in Limited packages to maximize the low end improvement. The "HT" (high tension) petals should be used in all other modified applications. These petals should be replaced annually in recreational engines, and inspected every 15 operating hours in racing engines.

About Reed Stuffers - "Reed stuffers" is an industry term that describes a plastic insert that smoothly guides the incoming mixture from the round profile of the carb throat, to the rectangular profile of the reed cage. The net result of reed stuffers is usually a small improvement in overall acceleration and response. Stuffers generally have no effect on peak rpm. The '96 - '99 62T engines are the only Super Jet engines that employs a design that can utilize reed stuffers. Reed stuffers are not required on the 6M6 and 61X engines.
 

Mouthfulloflake

ISJWTA member #2
Location
NW Arkansas
Did you quote that from Group K?

its dated I think, there is at least one reed stuffer for the 61x I have seen ( wetjet)
I wonder why the different case designs ( 6m6 and 61x) are deemed as not needing stuffers?

the 62t cases are suposed to breath so much better? confusing.

Where is Harry Klem? has he been on this site?

Id like to hear theories or facts by him, Paul, Supertune and the the other experts on these types of things.

Reeds - The aftermarket is full of replacement reed petals and cages for all three of the different Super Jet lower ends. The main considerations for alternative reed petals are performance, longevity, and side effect damage from petal failure.

Yamaha employs stainless steel reed petals in all the 6M6 and 61X cased Super Jets. Some of the 62T cased Super Jets came with stainless steel petals, and some with non- metallic "fiber" reed petals. The stainless steel material is used because it has an outstanding flexibility to weight ratio, the metal material seals exceptionally well against the rubber coated reed cages. Regardless of which material Yamaha chose, all the stock Yamaha reed petals offer excellent overall power characteristics. From a sheer performance standpoint, there are no aftermarket reed petals that out perform the stock petals by any big margin. All the stock Yamaha reed petals also offer exceptionally good long-term reliability.

Unfortunately, after enough service time, the stainless steel metal reeds can eventually fracture and break apart. When these stainless steel petals break, and circulate through the engine, they have the ability to cause serious damage to virtually all the internal engine moving parts (pistons, bearings, etc). If a fiber reed petal breaks apart, the engine easily "digests" the material resulting in no engine damage at all. While this reed petal fracturing is not a big problem on stock engines, the added pressures of high performance modification can significantly shorten a metal reed petal’s life.

For most recreational riders, the stock stainless steel reeds (replaced every 2 seasons) are likely the best overall performance value. However for any owner preparing a Limited 2, or Big Bore racing engine, we would recommend the use of non-metallic reed petals. Owners of 62T lower ends can simply purchase the stock Yamaha fiber petals used in the later models. For 6M6 and 61X case owners that wish to convert to fiber petals, we recommend the reeds from Carbon Tech. In this application, the Carbon Tech reeds appear to offer the best aftermarket mix of good performance, good longevity, and good cage sealing. Carbon Tech offers different material tensions for their reed petals. The "LT" (low tension) petal should be used in Limited packages to maximize the low end improvement. The "HT" (high tension) petals should be used in all other modified applications. These petals should be replaced annually in recreational engines, and inspected every 15 operating hours in racing engines.

About Reed Stuffers - "Reed stuffers" is an industry term that describes a plastic insert that smoothly guides the incoming mixture from the round profile of the carb throat, to the rectangular profile of the reed cage. The net result of reed stuffers is usually a small improvement in overall acceleration and response. Stuffers generally have no effect on peak rpm. The '96 - '99 62T engines are the only Super Jet engines that employs a design that can utilize reed stuffers. Reed stuffers are not required on the 6M6 and 61X engines.
 

Mouthfulloflake

ISJWTA member #2
Location
NW Arkansas
haha

ok...


so...

maybe the engine builders that DO come to this site could give some input?

Ill assume, they either did not want, were not offered, or were luckily under the radar of the corporate influence.
haha
:biggrin:
 

SUPERTUNE

Race Gas Rules
Location
Clearwater Fl.
I prefer to use reed stuffers and custom reed spacers on my engine builds, But you need to follow a strict combination of all of your modifications so that they all work for each other and give a dynamite complete package. This also will help carbs work better from a stronger intake signal...
 
I prefer to use reed stuffers and custom reed spacers on my engine builds, But you need to follow a strict combination of all of your modifications so that they all work for each other and give a dynamite complete package. This also will help carbs work better from a stronger intake signal...

Hi Chuck,

This appears to be an area we disagree on, please tell me how increasing the inlet tract, no matter how direct, will increase intake signal? No doubt your machines run great, but all other builders I have spoke to concerning this question tend to agree that a shorter intake length=a stronger signal, including Tim Vaughn of Novi. Please help me out on this one, no disrespect intended.

Steve
 
Stuffers and Spacers serve two distinct and different functions. Stuffers keep the cross sectional area to a minimum expansion until the charge enters the petals, or in other words it keeps the [ B] charge velocity up [/B] and through the cage into the engine. Spacers keep the petals back away from crank pressure fluctuations and/or pull the cage back from the boost port to give an unobtrusive entry y into the boost port. If you wonder why petals may be chipping or cracking, put a spacer in and pull back the cage a safer distance from the crank.
 
There are other effects spacers may have i.e.; working with the pipe, but these issues are far too difficult to discuss in this forum, especially with my typing skills.
 

SUPERTUNE

Race Gas Rules
Location
Clearwater Fl.
You must do your crankcase stuffing correctly w/ finger porting when moving the manifold back. I do use my own CNC'ed reed spacer for this. I'm mostly referring to the reed cage stuffers and some epoxy shaping of the intake manifold runners will promote air speed and that will produce a better carb signal. I'm moving the reed cage back at the manifold between the cases and NOT increasing the intake runner length (carb to reed cage). I do agree with you and what Tim says about the runner length which I'm not making longer just reshaping and better transition through the reed cage. Example: Just look at what Ed/Full Spectrum and Boyesen came out with their manifold/reed combination... a very smooth and fast transition all the way through the reed petals. This is what I was referring to.
 
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