"Derailing the reinforcement bandwagon!"

[michael950]

So Neil, "RMBC Freeride", is on a mission to derail the reinforcement bandwagon!

I can understand his argument against reinforcing a ski, especially if you are a veteran freestylist. But if you are learning to roll your ski, or regularly ride in shallow water (nose stabs), why not reinforce?

I should add that Neil does believe it is necessary for surf use, but should be strongly reconsidered/evaluated in the prescription for the ideal freeride boat. (It isn't something mandatory for a majority of the riders like a b-pipe, and girdled head). Neil also believes reinforcement should be evaluated on a case by case basis as all riders have different styles.


DISCLAIMER:
I started this thread to keep this conversation in the open and to get multiple perspectives. If ANY bashing, name calling, "that's just stupid", etc. goes on, your post will be deleted. You must remain constructive in this discussion.

 

[RMBC Freeride]

Hey, I really just want to help out newbies, not the veteran riders...
How many people join this sight with hopes of starting/improving their freestyle ski and start reading and searching only to "follow the herd" of what everybody else has done without knowing why...

They usually don't have great glass skills, and they get 10 different opinions of how much material to use. they end up using too much resin & way too much glass and their ski ends up being 30+ lbs HEAVIER!!!

And in reality, how soon are most of these people gonna be even attempting rolls?

BTW, i speak from experience... several years ago when I built my SJ, I fell into that trap and my boat is a TANK! it sucks.. and its the only thing I dislike about my beloved SJ.

Oh and I'm not sating "dont reinforce"... but rather, think about it... know what you are planning to do with your ski.... and Keep it light if you want a flatwater ski that still feels light and agile.

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

makes sense to me.

I did my nose/bracket area mostly, with some single layers down the sides.

its ugly, but strong, and didnt ad alot of weight.

I noticed when the boat was stock, I could flex the sides of the engine compartment with the hood off, after the few lbs of reinforcement, I can no longer flex the sides by hand.

 

[Matt_E]

I will admit that I jumped on that bandwagon from the very beginning of me having a Superjet.

My glassing sucked bad, and it showed. I sold the ski to Phill. :haha:

I did a better job with my roundnose, and am glad I did. I do punish my ski with plenty upside down and sideways landings.
Is it necessary for everyone? Absolutely not.

 

[michael950]

That's my fear, I'm going to use too much resin and make my ski a barge, or be too conservative with the epoxy and not use enough. I did decide on 1 layer of 12 oz biax, when some say use 2 layers of 17oz and a layer of Carbon Fiber. I think something like that is for Joe Kenny aggressive style.

I do think too many people recommend reinforcement out of habit, similar to the get a Lamey, when their riding abilities just aren't yet developed.

 

[RMBC Freeride]

That's my fear, I'm going to use too much resin and make my ski a barge, or be too conservative with the epoxy and not use enough.

I do think too many people recommend reinforcement out of habit, similar to the get a Lamey, when their riding abilities just aren't yet developed.

EXACTLY!

Use a squeegee to pull excess resin out of the glass. take out as much as you can. The excess resin does not add strength, just weight. (if you absolutely MUST reinforce... :biggrin

 

[norcal ex]

FYI...my ski is FULLY reinforced and it still gets stress cracks. my stock renforced roundnose was so bad i could push the rear right side in easily.

 

[michael950]

FYI...my ski is FULLY reinforced and it still gets stress cracks. my stock renforced roundnose was so bad i could push the rear right side in easily.

Please elaborate on how your ski is reinforced (glass, carbon, CF/Kevlar/ Biax) & your riding style (or link to vids).

Every rider is different, as are riding conditions... glassy lake, gulf surf, Westcoast surf, etc.

 

[Matt_E]

My setup:

Stock roundnose hull, bilge sides reinforced with 3 layers carbon/kevlar with little excess resin.
Pole bracket, nose, etc reinforced with glass.
The sides in the back are reinforced with one layer of knytex and a bit too much resin.

Riding: 90% River. Always trying rolls & stabs, failing miserably, always looking for big wakes. Throwaways every now and then.
Surf riding 10%, getting more aggressive.

 

[RoyalFlush@PCB]

Please elaborate on how your ski is reinforced (glass, carbon, CF/Kevlar/ Biax) & your riding style (or link to vids).

Every rider is different, as are riding conditions... glassy lake, gulf surf, Westcoast surf, etc.

Gulf Surf?

No such thing unless there's a hurricane out there. :biggrin:

 

[FL-cracker]

If you want to go upside down..... reinforce.....

The bondline is the main issue.....

POS yamahas :biggrin:

 

[63chevyll]

my set up,

no reinforcement on the SJ. most of my riding is on flat water, and when it breaks i will fix it at that time. thats what winter is for.

the only thing i am worried about is loosing a hood

 

[Frosty]

i went through 5 seasons on my RN before reinforcing. during my 3rd year i started developing cracks under the bondline on the outside. (both sides 18"-20" long).

last season i drilled bottom and cracked the nose pretty good doing a nose stab (fixed quickly to get back out) and then hit a rock on a re-entry blowing a hole in the stern later in the season. I reinforced over this past winter while repairing.

Stock RN hull
3 progressively larger layers of 8.9oz Texalium (1st strip 4" wide to cover bond line, 2nd strip 8 inches wide, 3rd covered the entire sides from under the lip to the bottom. used epoxy/resin with Aerosil-Cabosil from US composites to fill the bondline.

two layers of 8.9oz Texalium under the pole bracket. Two layers of 8.9oz Texalium in the nose area, covered by one layer of 32oz fiber glass cloth for added strength - since i crushed the nose. two layers of 6.5oz cloth on the outside of the nose - covered by hydro-turf for astetic reasons... LOL

Ride - lake Erie - everything from flat to 6-8 foot waves (sometimes bigger). 10% ride flat, 65% ride 1-3 foot chop, 25% surf.

I do tons of nose stabs, flat water and surf, practicing BRs and inverted stabs in all conditions, attempted several BF's, all resulting in pancakes.

 

[Frosty]

a little today maybe...

http://www.gulfcondos.com/webcam/default.htm

when hurricane season???

 

[wavegoddess]

I am a newbie, and when I was in the market to buy a superjet I turned to my friend that has been in the sport for a while with any questions that I had. I was looking at a superjet that was "reinforced" and this is what he said.

Also, it is not necessary to get a hull that has been reinforced. That just means it is way too heavy. The amateur riders were told by some pros back in the day that they should reinforce their skis. It was just so the up and comers would have heavier skis to compete on. My skis are carbon fiber and nor reinforced.

 

[FL-cracker]

Side note: Texalium is colored e-glass.... garbage!

S-glass is a great alternative to Carbon fiber..... it is fairly cheep, and is 25-30% stronger then E-glass.... so you will save some weight.

As others mentioned use a squegy.

Frosty has the right idea for the bondline issue, but I would have chose S-glass

 

[Frosty]

Side note: Texalium is colored e-glass.... garbage!

S-glass is a great alternative to Carbon fiber..... it is fairly cheep, and is 25-30% stronger then E-glass.... so you will save some weight.

As others mentioned use a squegy.

Frosty has the right idea for the bondline issue, but I would have chose S-glass

Dude... please don't tell me that... :bigeyes: :banghead:

oh man... freakin out right now!!!!

 

[FL-cracker]

Sorry dude..... just trying to help

I learn from the best

 

[MADMAT]

If I had a fresh brand new SJ I would not reinforce it. I would go 13/16, pipe, head and ride!

So I agree. I would not reinforce here on Lake Erie and we ge some rough stuff.

I hear SXR's hulls need nothing for sure!

 

[Idok]

If I had a fresh brand new SJ I would not reinforce it. I would go 13/16, pipe, head and ride!

So I agree. I would not reinforce here on Lake Erie and we ge some rough stuff.

I hear SXR's hulls need nothing for sure!

I think I agree...

or if anything, Id do the bondline and a single layer of glass



thats basicaly what I did to the fx-1 as well