How to fix and foolproof your MSD Total Loss system

Matt_E

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I think I've typed up individual parts of this upcoming post before. However, RiverRat's thread about MSD TL made me make it into a thread.

I feel the number one problem with MSD TL, particularly with dual channel systems, is the triggers. They have a very bad habit of breaking.
The trigger is just a one or two loop coil in a block of black plastic.

First, those broken triggers can be fixed in most cases. Usually, the wire breaks just inside the plastic block.
Grind away the plastic until you have the wire exposed. Try to determine where the break is, and cut the wire. Make sure you have enough plastic ground off to have about 1/4 inch of wire (at least) exposed that's still attached to the plastic block. Solder a new piece of wire on, and heat-shrink the joint. Make sure the connection is sturdy.

Next, you need to seal the block again. I use epoxy resin with thickener for that. It doesn't need to look pretty, but you do need to make sure that you do not raise the height of the block at all. It's a good idea to use the epoxy to make an extended wire guard. See, the reason the trigger broke in the first place is simply that the wire goes into the plastic block without any wiring protection. Wriggle the wire around enough, and it will break. This is particularly the case with the trigger that has to mounted with the wire going backwards away from it.
You can just as well use 5200 on the wire-plastic joint - anything that's a stress relief.

Heat-shrink both wires of the individual triggers together now.
The trigger on the left side of the mounting plate needs to be reversed. As mentioned before, they make you mount it to where the wire is going backwards away from the trigger. This will break the wire in short order.
Unscrew the plastic block from the small metal base plate and reverse the trigger.

Next, make sure the grommet through the mounting plate is good.
A very important thing: Use a good case grommet to seal the flywheel area!!!
It is essential for bendix and starter health to keep water out of the flywheel area! I have had very bad luck using the grommet MSD gives you, and using the OEM gromment.
I am currently using the custom grommet Jetskisolutions sells - it looks like it will do an awesome job at keeping the water out.

When you mount the trigger mounting plate, make sure you do not pinch the pickup wires. I would heat-shrink all four wires (if you have two triggers) from the mounting plate on. Use some sealant on the case grommet. Do a quality job here, it will pay off in the long run.

MSD has you use a lot of bullet connectors - I don't like them. Yeah, they're convenient, but they make the wires rot over time.
Solder and heatshrink wherever and whenever possible.
The Deutsch connectors are fine - they do a good job.

Keep your wires as short as possible, heatshrink them, and wrap them in protective sheathing of some sort.
Ground your coil(s)!!! Very important to proper operation. If at all possible, retain your OEM start/stop switch connectors. Simply solder/heatshrink them onto the MSD system.

Keep your wiring nice, neat, and out of the way of moving parts (coupler). Nothing sucks more than losing a day of riding because of a disconnected bullet connector that you cannot find in that rats nest of TL wiring.

Lastly, keep the brain box at least 5-6 inches away from the coils.
 
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Freestyleriverrat

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WOW! Thanks allot Matt. I just picked up a lightly used single coil TL system and need all the help I can get to: First have a working knowlegde base for the system and secondly know how to properly adjust the system for various applications. We should put this in the teck section.
 

Matt_E

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I will add some info on timing that I personally use.
Hopefully we can get our pros to add some insight.
 

Matt_E

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65 bucks a piece from MSD, 62 bucks a piece from Riva.

Not exactly cheap.
Besides, fixing is cheaper.
 
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Freestyleriverrat

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If that is the main complaint on the systems I wonder why MSD or a aftermarket company does not make a more durable trigger
 

Matt_E

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They probably don't sell enough.
Besides, it's Matt_E's aftermarket triggers in my ignition. 50 cents worth of epoxy & 5200.
 

Matt_E

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Some small info on timing....

MSD tells you to use the timing LED on the brain box. I don't have that option, as my LED is not working.
Besides, Chuckie (TeamScream) has repeatedly recommended using a timing light. Use whatever you want - but I predict a timing light will be more accurate.
To do this, you need either a special bendix holder, or a cut-down flywheel cover to do the same.
Simply find TDC with a dial indicator, and mark TDC on the flywheel and the cases.
I believe I am running 32 degrees static advance on mine. I did this last year on 190lbs of compression and pumpgas.
Other folks swear by running only 28 degrees or so of initial advance, as that makes your motor's low RPM range much smoother.
I believe my start retard is set to 4500RPM...this is where the ignition starts retarding the timing.
My RPM limit is at 8400 or so. My final retard is 15 degrees.
 
Matt_E said:
Some small info on timing....

MSD tells you to use the timing LED on the brain box. I don't have that option, as my LED is not working.
Besides, Chuckie (TeamScream) has repeatedly recommended using a timing light. Use whatever you want - but I predict a timing light will be more accurate.
To do this, you need either a special bendix holder, or a cut-down flywheel cover to do the same.
Simply find TDC with a dial indicator, and mark TDC on the flywheel and the cases.
I believe I am running 32 degrees static advance on mine. I did this last year on 190lbs of compression and pumpgas.
Other folks swear by running only 28 degrees or so of initial advance, as that makes your motor's low RPM range much smoother.
I believe my start retard is set to 4500RPM...this is where the ignition starts retarding the timing.
My RPM limit is at 8400 or so. My final retard is 15 degrees.

:bigeyes:
 

Matt_E

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What's the problem? Most guys with an Enhancer seem to open that limiter all the way up.
8400 isn't that high for a revlimit. Your finger should be your real rev limiter.
For a ported cyl with pipe, 8400 leaves a bit of room to not hit the limiter constantly.
 

Matt_E

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One thing to keep in mind...the Total loss timing is adjustable, the enhancer timing is not.
So, what is a safe rev limit (safe due to programmable timing retard) is not a safe rev limit on an enhancer.
 
Hey I'm just in the middle of changing my pick up on my single pickup tl system is there a way to convert it to a dual pick up so if one messes up i can just change the wires right? Or is that a totally different system i dunno. I also fried my msd coil pn 4292 and can not find one anywhere any suggestions or any one have one, my stock coil mounted in the tupperware box has got to go.Also my trigger mounting plate only has one set of screw holes for one pick up.
 

Matt_E

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I suppose you could drill holes for another pickup...but I would just find a dual pickup mounting plate. Mount both pickups, and you're good to go.
 

T-bone

brraap....thats so 2002
the main thing you have to do is use your brain.....when the ski is in the air and unloaded dont rev the piss out of it.
 

wildman326

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And if you let some newbie ride it - - make sure you tell them to let off the throttle if they come out of the water.:bigeyes:

It's fun to let some new dude rip on your ski to see their reaction when they come back, but when they go out and rev it through the roof - oops.
 
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Freestyleriverrat

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I have been reading up on timing for a standard stroke motor and I think I am going to run 28 degrees of static timing advance, begin retard @ 5000 rpm, Rev Limit @ 8250 rpm, and final retard @ 15 degrees. Does that sound about right? What about using the LED to set the timing. I have heard that they are not very accurate depending on the system you have?
 
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Freestyleriverrat

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I found this on the MSD instructions page:

"(Because of the advanced circuitry in the MSD Ignition the true timing is 5 degrees less tha what the timing mark will show). To achieve your true timing, subtract 5degrees from the number you wrote down. Example 30 degrees less 5 degrees equals 25 degrees of true timing

So to get my 28 degrees of true timing I have to set my static timing at 33 degrees when using the LED indicator as my guide?
 
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waterfreak

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Cool info! I had my TL set up by TJ (tim judge) . It's a 6mm stroker with about 205 psi. Static timing is at 28 degrees. He also turn off the electric starter function so the engine hits even at real low rpm and if you really like blipping the throttle (like I do!)
 
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