Bun vs xs engines

[Dukey]

Does anyone know what the differences between the performance of an xs1200 and a bun 1200 is? Which one is more reliable and longer longevity? I’ve been looking at new skis and am curious if it’s worth it to get a larger engine since I was told they don’t last as long. Any opinions?

Also what are the main differences between a revolver v1 and v2 hull?

Thanks for any responses.

 

[Roseand]

I don't think people choose 1200s for their reliability.. What are your riding goals? Are you new to skis or a seasoned rider?

I don't know anything about the bun 1200 but the XS is 66e based which uses beefier bearings and rotating components vs say a dasa. I know people get some decent run time on them.
Also your engine life greatly depends on how much water you injest, how you ride, and how much compression you choose to run.

 

[Big Kahuna]

What Rosie said.

 

[Dukey]

I don't think people choose 1200s for their reliability.. What are your riding goals? Are you new to skis or a seasoned rider?

I don't know anything about the bun 1200 but the XS is 66e based which uses beefier bearings and rotating components vs say a dasa. I know people get some decent run time on them.
Also your engine life greatly depends on how much water you injest, how you ride, and how much compression you choose to run.

I am a decent rider. I am just looking to try something new. I currently ride a dasa 1100 setup so I’ve been looking at a bun 1200 and xs1200 setups for sale nearby. I was just curious what the main differences between the engines were since I was more leaning towards the bun, but someone recently told me the buns don’t last very long. Is the reliability of a 1200 that much different from the 1100? Also what do you mean by how you ride?

 

[Roseand]

I am a decent rider. I am just looking to try something new. I currently ride a dasa 1100 setup so I’ve been looking at a bun 1200 and xs1200 setups for sale nearby. I was just curious what the main differences between the engines were since I was more leaning towards the bun, but someone recently told me the buns don’t last very long. Is the reliability of a 1200 that much different from the 1100? Also what do you mean by how you ride?

If you're a seasoned rider it's probably irellevant, but if you're trying tricks and "shocking" the motor by letting the pump come unhooked and freereving it hard, and then letting it hook at high RPMs can be hard on the crank. It's mostly an issue when learning to do tricks on a freestyle ski. Once you learn throttle control it's much less of an issue.

Yes, either of those 1200s will be a night and day difference over your 1100. Yes the increased stroke adds power but typically the 1200s are ported much more aggressively than a dasa 1100. Dasa 1100s are pretty conservative. Have you switched to total loss and race gas yet? If not you could try that and see what you think.

 

[Roseand]

I'm sure HSI stocks some bun parts but if you're going for reliability and product support I would choose xscream if you want to go the 1200 route. It's a tried and trued setup with tons of info on how to set it up from multiple people. With the Bun, you're limited to HSI for support. Not saying that's a bad thing, but just a thought. Bun engines are just starting to be a more common thing in the US. It's been proven they rip extremely well though. There's motors I avoid due to lack of support.

Tpe1105 would be an upgrade over your dasa1100 especially if you choose their higher end porting. Plus @Jr.(he also would have great advice on choosing a 11-1200 motor and engine reliability)supports their products and would make sure you're set up extra well.
If youre chasing reliability and going full out with high compression, I wouldn't recommend a 12 unless you're willing to tear it down preventively and you understand the risks.

 

[Dukey]

I'm sure HSI stocks some bun parts but if you're going for reliability and product support I would choose xscream if you want to go the 1200 route. It's a tried and trued setup with tons of info on how to set it up from multiple people. With the Bun, you're limited to HSI for support. Not saying that's a bad thing, but just a thought. Bun engines are just starting to be a more common thing in the US. It's been proven they rip extremely well though. There's motors I avoid due to lack of support.

Tpe1105 would be an upgrade over your dasa1100 especially if you choose their higher end porting. Plus @Jr.(he also would have great advice on choosing a 11-1200 motor and engine reliability)supports their products and would make sure you're set up extra well.
If youre chasing reliability and going full out with high compression, I wouldn't recommend a 12 unless you're willing to tear it down preventively and you understand the risks.

Sounds like it’s not worth it to get a 1200. I wouldn’t mind the increased power but I also don’t want to have to worry about it constantly breaking down on me. I run 50/50 through my ski to save money. I haven’t gotten around to testing with total loss yet.

My setup is pretty old so I was looking at entirely new, used skis. I figure purchasing a used ski with mostly new equipment will save me money and then I can change things from there. A new hull and new engine nowadays costs 20k alone so it sounds better to purchase a slightly used setup for 23k and sell the stuff I want to replace to fund the new items I purchase. Thoughts? Is this wishful thinking?

I don’t know much about TPE. I wasn’t aware you could get extra porting on 1100 engines. What do you mean by pump unhooked?

Thanks for your responses.

 

[Roseand]

Sounds like it’s not worth it to get a 1200. I wouldn’t mind the increased power but I also don’t want to have to worry about it constantly breaking down on me. I run 50/50 through my ski to save money. I haven’t gotten around to testing with total loss yet.

My setup is pretty old so I was looking at entirely new, used skis. I figure purchasing a used ski with mostly new equipment will save me money and then I can change things from there. A new hull and new engine nowadays costs 20k alone so it sounds better to purchase a slightly used setup for 23k and sell the stuff I want to replace to fund the new items I purchase. Thoughts? Is this wishful thinking?

I don’t know much about TPE. I wasn’t aware you could get extra porting on 1100 engines. What do you mean by pump unhooked?

Thanks for your responses.

Get a lightweight, new modern technology carbon hull and some total loss. Will be a massive upgrade and not affect your reliability.
By pump being unhooked-its really only a problem with new riders which sounds like you are not.

What slightly used setup are you looking into? Some of the comp 900s for sale would honestly probably out perform your dasa

 

[Roseand]

@KMN and @SmittySX both have comp 900 dvxs that can combo as long as you can hold on, if you're looking for a capable freestyle ski.

 

[Dukey]

Get a lightweight, new modern technology carbon hull and some total loss. Will be a massive upgrade and not affect your reliability.
By pump being unhooked-its really only a problem with new riders which sounds like you are not.

What slightly used setup are you looking into? Some of the comp 900s for sale would honestly probably out perform your dasa

I was mostly looking at used revolver setups, but the only ones available I’ve seen in the states are 1200s. Hence the questions about 1200 engines. I don’t plan on competing or anything I just enjoy the sport and like to fly.

I don’t know much about total loss. How does it improve performance?

 

[Roseand]

I was mostly looking at used revolver setups, but the only ones available I’ve seen in the states are 1200s. Hence the questions about 1200 engines. I don’t plan on competing or anything I just enjoy the sport and like to fly.

I don’t know much about total loss. How does it improve performance?

How much do you weigh? What's your current setup?
Main gain from total loss is the programmable timing curve, but MSD and MS01 also have a stronger spark which helps too. Not to mention you get a much lighter flywheel for faster throttle response.

There are a lot of good freestyle hulls out there besides just revolvers too.

 

[Msdsuperjet]

I would personally stay away from a Bun1200 package. They are very finicky and tempermental. Yes there are a handful of them that rip hard, but those that have them are constantly tuning, i personally know 5 or so people that had a really hard time getting them to run right.
My best advice would be buy a Dasa Ninja 1200 or a TPE 1200. Dont worry about total loss, run on charging ignition and 50/50 race fuel and you will have a rocket ship that will outperform 98% of riders own capabilities.
TPE or Dasa you cant go wrong. Dont believe the hype from people trying to push product and not look out for your best interest, there is a ton of that.
Whoever you choose, listen to the builder on their “recipe” on parts to accomodate the engine you choose.


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[Dukey]

How much do you weigh? What's your current setup?
Main gain from total loss is the programmable timing curve, but MSD and MS01 also have a stronger spark which helps too. Not to mention you get a much lighter flywheel for faster throttle response.

There are a lot of good freestyle hulls out there besides just revolvers too.

I weigh 170 and ride a revolver r carbon/fiberglass layup. So I definitely want a new hull just for the full carbon aspect. I do love the revolver r hull but it’s time for an upgrade.

 

[Roseand]

Whoever you choose, listen to the builder on their “recipe” on parts to accomodate the engine you choose.

Either buy an already built, tuned setup or do exactly this.

 

[Roseand]

I weigh 170 and ride a revolver r carbon/fiberglass layup. So I definitely want a new hull just for the full carbon aspect. I do love the revolver r hull but it’s time for an upgrade.

Well then man I think it's time for you to get a full carbon revolver!

 

[Dukey]

Either buy an already built, tuned setup or do exactly this.

Unfortunately, I don’t know enough about skis to build my own. I really wish I did. I’ve tried watching videos but as someone who hasn’t grown up around these machines, it’s hard to learn just from videos and reading in this forum. So my best bet is to purchase an already tuned ski. I’m just hoping it doesn’t cause more problems than it’s worth. But at least it’ll give me a good starting ground so I could always sell the engine and try something new.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Dukey]

I would personally stay away from a Bun1200 package. They are very finicky and tempermental. Yes there are a handful of them that rip hard, but those that have them are constantly tuning, i personally know 5 or so people that had a really hard time getting them to run right.
My best advice would be buy a Dasa Ninja 1200 or a TPE 1200. Dont worry about total loss, run on charging ignition and 50/50 race fuel and you will have a rocket ship that will outperform 98% of riders own capabilities.
TPE or Dasa you cant go wrong. Dont believe the hype from people trying to push product and not look out for your best interest, there is a ton of that.
Whoever you choose, listen to the builder on their “recipe” on parts to accomodate the engine you choose.


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That’s good to know about the bun engine. How are the rest of the bun products like pump and carbs? I think the biggest problem is I haven’t seen any TPE or dasa ninja skis in my price range. How are TPE 1200s compared to dasa ninja’s because the TPE is quite a bit more expensive brand new than the dasa? If the listing says the bun ski was already tuned, you would still avoid it?

 

[Roseand]

Unfortunately, I don’t know enough about skis to build my own. I really wish I did. I’ve tried watching videos but as someone who hasn’t grown up around these machines, it’s hard to learn just from videos and reading in this forum. So my best bet is to purchase an already tuned ski. I’m just hoping it doesn’t cause more problems than it’s worth. But at least it’ll give me a good starting ground so I could always sell the engine and try something new.

Thanks for your help.

How do you think we all learned man? If you own a freestyle ski you pretty much have to be your own mechanic. There is no part of building a ski that's really difficult. It just takes time. There's also a repair manual that walks you through every little thing you can imagine. You don't need many tools either. If you go with a recommended package you won't have to do much tuning, too.

 

[Dukey]

That’s fair. It’s more the tuning I’m not sure about. I’ve had to take my ski apart dozens of times. I’ve don’t plenty of work on it I just haven’t quite understood the tuning aspect just yet. By recommended package do you mean like a carbs with engine package or is pump part of that to?

 

[Roseand]

That’s fair. It’s more the tuning I’m not sure about. I’ve had to take my ski apart dozens of times. I’ve don’t plenty of work on it I just haven’t quite understood the tuning aspect just yet. By recommended package do you mean like a carbs with engine package or is pump part of that to?

Tuning is time consuming and you only learn by trial and error. Reading stuff on the forums is helpful but it's just a lot of personal experience needed. Pump tuning is quite an animal to get just right.
Yes. Buy the pipe, carbs, exhaust, and prop they recommend.
I personally run a php 898 and I bought the prop recommended, the carbs and recommended jets, pipe and pipe settings etc. I spent a couple minutes on the trailer in the water making sure the temps were good.. Then I was off to flipping immediately after. Ski was pretty much dialed right off the bat.