Surfriding Marine Grade Aluminum

DAG

Yes, my balls tickled from that landing
Location
Charlotte, NC
Any metallurgist lurking the forums? I'm having some aluminum parts machined and curious what grade aluminum is going to hold up to saltwater corrosion without being anodized if any? I've sourced 5052 and 5086 cheap but is there anything better. My research shows boats and saltwater fish tanks are made from both 5052/5086. What I don't know is if they still get anodized? Any first hand experience?
 

madscientist

chilling with these guys.
Location
good old p'cola
all of the saltwater fishing towers get built with anodized aluminum around here. aluminum hand rails at the hotels (also built locally) are similar or clear powder coated.
 

DAG

Yes, my balls tickled from that landing
Location
Charlotte, NC
Let me ask the question in another way. Why would anyone manufacture a "Super-Corrosion-Resistant Aluminum" if its going to cost more than 6061 and yet still needs anodized? I would bet your local fishing towers, hand rails, fishtanks, are made from a cheaper grade 6061 aluminum and then anodized because it's cheaper than 5086 in the raw.
 

DAG

Yes, my balls tickled from that landing
Location
Charlotte, NC
How can you make that claim? Have you used 5052 or 5086?

I understand Anodizing makes the surface of the part hard, however, why would anyone think something that's corrosion resistant throughout its thickness show more signs of corrosion after "time" vs 6061 which only has a "coating" of corrosion resistance. What do you think happens to anodized parts once the coatings wear?


this is fun, can anyone with experience chime in?
 
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I made a handle pole bracket out of scrap aluminum for 25$. Put some cheapo clear on it. Used it like that for 12 yrs. In saltwater. The clear started looking bad and the bracket has a little corrosion underneath where it mounts to the ski. It's not real visable under the purple cover but it looks old. But its still solid. I think if you have it uncoated, you should constantly clean and wax it to get it to stay looking decent.
Saltwater seems to eat through anything eventually.
 
Location
hhh
How can you make that claim? Have you used 5052 or 5086?

I understand Anodizing makes the surface of the part hard, however, why would anyone think something that's corrosion resistant throughout its thickness show more signs of corrosion after "time" vs 6061 which only has a "coating" of corrosion resistance. What do you think happens to anodized parts once the coatings wear?


this is fun, can anyone with experience chime in?

Thought I did sorry if it came across wrong. We machine every aluminum piece from 6061 and are put in very harsh environments. Granted not salt water, but probably worse given the abuse they receive.
It's good enough for every high end auto manufacturer for there precision tooling and gaging. And yes plenty of experience here with that.

Our 4140 and a2 steel come back looking like crap after a years use. The 6061 doesn't. We don't anodize anything and use a hot oxide line for steel parts.
 
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DAG

Yes, my balls tickled from that landing
Location
Charlotte, NC
Correct. 5052 is typically used for forming and typically not found thicker than 1/4". Hardness is the same as 6061 and yield strength of both 5052 and 5086 is 20% lower than 6061. I also have not worked with 5052 or 5086 but after reading the ASTM specs I think "butter" is a bit of a an exaggeration but considering its thickness is typically no more than 1/4" I can see how one would think butter. Happen to work with 5052 1/2" or thicker?
 
Location
dfw
Any metallurgist lurking the forums? I'm having some aluminum parts machined and curious what grade aluminum is going to hold up to saltwater corrosion without being anodized if any? I've sourced 5052 and 5086 cheap but is there anything better. My research shows boats and saltwater fish tanks are made from both 5052/5086. What I don't know is if they still get anodized? Any first hand experience?

For machined parts use 6061 T6. The 5052 is best for formed parts. Either may be used well depending on "your" application. Whatever you do, dont use 2024 or 7075 anywhere corrosion is an issue.
 
the rating of aluminum has nothing to do with a marine rating, it is all suitable to corrosion unless treated(anodized in most cases).. the rating is simply the build up of the alloys used in the raw material, the lower the number the softer it is... t6 would be the best bet, unless you really wanted to burn the bank and move to a 7075 or something aircraft rated, but like stated, not the best choice where corrosion is present.... anything lower than 6 series will end up giving you problems if it's a stressed part.. boat hulls are made of softer product for the fact that it will bend and stretch if impacted, rather than crack and tare resulting in a leaking problem that would turn a boat into an anchor...
 
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Big Kahuna

Administrator
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
What are you making......... From my understanding, Anodizing does not add strength. It is just a coating that is applied electrostatically........ Can be removed with EZ-Off over cleaner and heat.
 

swapmeet

Brotastic
Location
Arlington TX
I believe powder coat is electrostatic. As I understand, Anodizing is a chemically impregnated color, that, in the process of application, makes the surface 'harder' for lack of a more technical term. So its not really "strength" as it is durability.
 
Location
hhh
I believe powder coat is electrostatic. As I understand, Anodizing is a chemically impregnated color, that, in the process of application, makes the surface 'harder' for lack of a more technical term. So its not really "strength" as it is durability.

powder coating is just backed on thick paint basically. ano might make the surface "harder" but doesnt add strength, just think of it as a really good clear coat. and yes ano is electrostatic applied.
 

swapmeet

Brotastic
Location
Arlington TX
powder coating is just backed on thick paint basically. ano might make the surface "harder" but doesnt add strength, just think of it as a really good clear coat. and yes ano is electrostatic applied.

I was just saying that to 'apply' the powder, they use a positive/ negative charge to get it to stick to the intended part.

Ok, I had to look this up...

Aluminium alloys are anodized to increase corrosion resistance and to allow dyeing (coloring), improved lubrication, or improved adhesion.However, anodizing does not increase the strength of the aluminium object. The anodic layer is non-conductive.[SUP][3][/SUP]

When exposed to air at room temperature, or any other gas containing oxygen, pure aluminium self-passivates by forming a surface layer of amorphous aluminium oxide 2 to 3 nm thick,[SUP][4][/SUP] which provides very effective protection against corrosion. Aluminium alloys typically form a thicker oxide layer, 5-15 nm thick, but tend to be more susceptible to corrosion. Aluminium alloy parts are anodized to greatly increase the thickness of this layer for corrosion resistance. The corrosion resistance of aluminium alloys is significantly decreased by certain alloying elements or impurities: copper, iron, and silicon,[SUP][5][/SUP] so 2000, 4000, and 6000-series Al alloys tend to be most susceptible.

Although anodizing produces a very regular and uniform coating, microscopic fissures in the coating can lead to corrosion. Further, the coating is susceptible to chemical dissolution in the presence of high and low pH chemistry, which results in stripping the coating and corrosion of the substrate. To combat this, various techniques have been developed either to reduce the number of fissures or to insert more chemically stable compounds into the oxide, or both. For instance, sulfuric anodized articles are normally sealed, either through hydro-thermal sealing or precipitating sealing, to reduce porosity and interstitial pathways that allow for corrosive ion exchange between the surface and the substrate. Precipitating seals enhance chemical stability but are less effective in eliminating ion exchange pathways. Most recently, new techniques to partially convert the amorphous oxide coating into more stable micro-crystalline compounds have been developed that have shown significant improvement based on shorter bond lengths.
Some aluminium aircraft parts, architectural materials, and consumer products are anodized. Anodized aluminium can be found on mp3 players, multi-tools, flashlights, cookware, cameras, sporting goods, window frames, roofs, in electrolytic capacitors, and on many other products both for corrosion resistance and the ability to retain dye. Although anodizing only has moderate wear resistance, the deeper pores can better retain a lubricating film than a smooth surface would.
Anodized coatings have a much lower thermal conductivity and coefficient of linear expansion than aluminium. As a result, the coating will crack from thermal stress if exposed to temperatures above 80 °C. The coating can crack, but it will not peel.[SUP][6][/SUP] The melting point of aluminium oxide is 2050 °C, much higher than pure aluminium's 658 °C.[SUP][6][/SUP] This and the non-conductivity of aluminum oxide can make welding more difficult. In typical commercial aluminium anodization processes, the aluminium oxide is grown down into the surface and out from the surface by equal amounts.[SUP][7][/SUP] So anodizing will increase the part dimensions on each surface by half the oxide thickness. For example, a coating that is 2 μm thick will increase the part dimensions by 1 μm per surface. If the part is anodized on all sides, then all linear dimensions will increase by the oxide thickness. Anodized aluminium surfaces are harder than aluminium but have low to moderate wear resistance, although this can be improved with thickness and sealing.

Application:

Preceding the anodization process, wrought alloys are cleaned in either a hot soak cleaner or in a solvent bath and may be etched in sodium hydroxide (normally with added sodium gluconate), ammonium bifluoride or brightened in a mix of acids. Cast alloys are normally best just cleaned due to the presence of intermetallic substances unless they are a high purity alloy such as LM0.
The anodized aluminium layer is grown by passing a direct current through an electrolytic solution, with the aluminium object serving as the anode (the positive electrode). The current releases hydrogen at the cathode (the negative electrode) and oxygen at the surface of the aluminium anode, creating a build-up of aluminium oxide. Alternating current and pulsed current is also possible but rarely used. The voltage required by various solutions may range from 1 to 300 V DC, although most fall in the range of 15 to 21 V. Higher voltages are typically required for thicker coatings formed in sulfuric and organic acid. The anodizing current varies with the area of aluminium being anodized, and typically ranges from 30 to 300 amperes/meter² (2.8 to 28 ampere/ft²).
Aluminium anodizing is usually performed in an acid solution which slowly dissolves the aluminium oxide. The acid action is balanced with the oxidation rate to form a coating with nanopores, 10-150 nm in diameter.[SUP][6][/SUP] These pores are what allow the electrolyte solution and current to reach the aluminium substrate and continue growing the coating to greater thickness beyond what is produced by autopassivation.[SUP][8][/SUP] However, these same pores will later permit air or water to reach the substrate and initiate corrosion if not sealed. They are often filled with colored dyes and/or corrosion inhibitors before sealing. Because the dye is only superficial, the underlying oxide may continue to provide corrosion protection even if minor wear and scratches may break through the dyed layer.
Conditions such as electrolyte concentration, acidity, solution temperature, and current must be controlled to allow the formation of a consistent oxide layer. Harder, thicker films tend to be produced by more dilute solutions at lower temperatures with higher voltages and currents. The film thickness can range from under 0.5 micrometers for bright decorative work up to 150 micrometers for architectural applications.




I disabled the hyperlinks... so here is a link to the source. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodizing
 
^^^^^

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