this is probably going to get real ugly,i'm trying to find a solution for an ongoing debate(not arguement)over which oils to use in your big bore,high compression(200+) ,total loss,stroker motor.now i'm not looking for a poll here.i'm not trying to find out what kind of oil eric malone uses.what i'm looking for is maybe someone who knows about how the different oils are formulated and the pro's and cons of thier practices.are there any chemists out there?if not then what would be the cheapest way to conduct a test of viscosity break down without having to put my 6mm lamey on the line? i mean thats what it all comes down to. i've seen where people sand blasted metal and put all kinds of oil on it,and left it outside for 2 months to see which one rusted up first. which would be a good test to see which one stuck to metal the best for corrosion purposes.but how is an oils ability to lubricate or reduce friction measured? what i'm looking for is either the EXACT science of lubrication formulation or a good way to test the oils in question.so here it is: maxima 927,klotz, and amsoil dominator vs. the castrol synthetic 2 stroke oil and penzoil synthetic 2 stroke oil from walmart.yeah ,i know it sounds like a pretty stupid question,but petroleum is petroleum right?now i dont have too much faith in the walmart oils, but what if they were just as good?now the opposing arguement would be that the other oils are more expensive for a reason.well what is that reason?what if it costed more money for these hi performance companies to produce their oils becuase they arent producing as much as say castrol or penzoil?what if these hi performance companies were actually buying the stuff they make thier oils with from castrol or penzoil?castrol ,i could be wrong ,has been making lubricants for like 100 years.i would assume that their good at it.does amsoil have thier own oil rigs drilling for oil?i bet penzoil/castrol do.these are all factors that could allow them to produce a high quality product far cheaper than the other companies.basicly,what if we were all paying 50.00 a gallon for a product we could just get at walmart?10 years ago, i would have to go to the motorcycle shop to get oil for my jetski becuase they made better oils for dirtbikes than they did for jetskis(at least that was what i was told)and the oil i bought was synthetic.so whats the deal ?or how can it be figured out?
oil vs. oil vs. oil???
- Thread starter jacob06
- Start date
- Location
- atlanta ga
mmmm.....
jetskiking
Im done sanding!!!
- Location
- Dallas Georgia
canola oil :biggthumpup:
Jumper
What! What!
- Location
- Orlando biatches!
:boggled:
- Location
- Altoona Pa
super M...
its all ya need
its all ya need
i suppose all the "experts" must have taken the night off.:cool2:so the best idea i have is to take 5 weedeaters,and fill them with all the different kinds of premixes and run them wideopen until empy.and after each tank, equally reduce the amount of oil in each machine. and then keep reducing and running them all,over and over again until they seize and see which ones go first.it would also be cool to see the rpms they are all running for performance statistics.i dont suppose a tach would be all that hard to attatch to a weedeater.this might not be the cheapest way,but this is the first thing that comes to my mind.so ,does anyone have a weedeater or 5 they would like to donate ?or a landscaping company they have a grudge against?i think i have like 3 tachometers in my garage.i'm not trying to stir up the establishment too much,but i think truelly knowing which oil can take the most abuse would be a good thing for anyone thats going to abuse thier 3-5k motor on a weekly basis. - or that " all knowing chemist " could chime in and break it all down for us. destroying some stuff would probably be more fun though.
- Location
- Down stream of Harrisburg, PA
we use yama-lube in all of our skis. I think it runs good, we havent used anthing else, so i cant compare/contrast very good
jetskiking
Im done sanding!!!
- Location
- Dallas Georgia
I would be interested in seeing the reply's. I'm a cheap bast@rd so you know I run the penziol as have you for many years. I personally think it dosn't matter if you have a properly built engine with correct piston to cylinder wall clearences and ring gap. It would be hard to sway me to spend more because I have run this oil for years in my ski's and dirt bikes and as you know all my equipment is usually pretty reliable accept for handle poles:sneaky: I also pull my head alot and don't notice accelerated wear from using these oils.
I have heard that if you run benoil in mildly built motors that thier could be gumming issues. Can anyone confirm this? This wouldn't apply to you though cause your motor is anything but mild:biggthumpup:
I have heard that if you run benoil in mildly built motors that thier could be gumming issues. Can anyone confirm this? This wouldn't apply to you though cause your motor is anything but mild:biggthumpup:
jetskiking
Im done sanding!!!
- Location
- Dallas Georgia
You buying the weedeaters:arms:
- Location
- San Antonio, TX
I don't know anything about motors, but wouldn't regular and frequent oil changes make this a moot point?
i'll throw 50.00 at it.if anyone else wants to know they could throw in too.i figure a weedeater could be bought at a pawnshop for 20.00.but dammit somebody on here has got to have a weedeatr in their garage doing nothing.it would help though if they were all the same kind.but seriously,i think this is something that should be known.i run the walmart oil in my limited boats too now, but this stroker should probably be more demanding of its lubricant.
Flash-FX
No Square..No Round..FX-1
- Location
- South Jersey Shore
I hear ya...Me and my riding buds went through that "oil" thing a few years back. We ended up buying a 55 gal drum of Super M & pouring off like 10 gals ea. It was ok and our motors didn't blow up. One of the guy's has a tree service and ran that Super M in all of his Saws. His complaint was that it created excess deposits and clogged up the mufflers. I think he was running 50:1.
Around the same time I recall a article in a experimental aircraft publication about different oils tested in 4 Rotax 582 aircraft engines. They had set up the "New" engines on a mobile trailer test stand and ran them with the different oils. After the test they dissembled them and measured the wear and noted the deposits from the combustion process. The oil that came out on top was Penzoil synthetic 2 stroke outboard oil. Yes, the stuff in the yellow jugs you can buy in Walmart. I wish I still had that article. Anyways, that's the oil I'm running now.
Around the same time I recall a article in a experimental aircraft publication about different oils tested in 4 Rotax 582 aircraft engines. They had set up the "New" engines on a mobile trailer test stand and ran them with the different oils. After the test they dissembled them and measured the wear and noted the deposits from the combustion process. The oil that came out on top was Penzoil synthetic 2 stroke outboard oil. Yes, the stuff in the yellow jugs you can buy in Walmart. I wish I still had that article. Anyways, that's the oil I'm running now.
Boris
The Good Old Days
- Location
- The surf-less coast
Buying 5 used weed-eaters in pawn shops would prove what ?
Even brand new ones would be sketchy unless you got at least 25 (5 for each oil).
Now, seeing a weed-eater self destruct would be cool but not very productive.
Even brand new ones would be sketchy unless you got at least 25 (5 for each oil).
Now, seeing a weed-eater self destruct would be cool but not very productive.
o.k. so check the compression in each one before you start to make sure they are all the same or close.why would you need 25 of them?just run them slap out each time and reduce the ratios equally across them all.i do think they would all need to be the same kind of weedeaters for the test to be accurate though.
Boris
The Good Old Days
- Location
- The surf-less coast
In your first post you mentioned 5 oils.
To have a valid test the number of motors per oil should be no less than 3 (not all motors are equal from the factory) but 5 would be a better number hence 25.
If you go with the used motors and check compression only that doesn't tell you the true state of the motor.
What if a rod is stressed and about to let go ?
A comp test won't show that.
I was told by a certain engine builder to run dino oil at a higher ratio as opposed to a synthetic one as the dino oil burns better.
I still run amsoil and have done so for years (was the best thing for my power valve couch motor) but when my new motor gets finished I will do as the engine builder says.
To have a valid test the number of motors per oil should be no less than 3 (not all motors are equal from the factory) but 5 would be a better number hence 25.
If you go with the used motors and check compression only that doesn't tell you the true state of the motor.
What if a rod is stressed and about to let go ?
A comp test won't show that.
I was told by a certain engine builder to run dino oil at a higher ratio as opposed to a synthetic one as the dino oil burns better.
I still run amsoil and have done so for years (was the best thing for my power valve couch motor) but when my new motor gets finished I will do as the engine builder says.
ok so who wants to help me rob a landscape company? you got a good point about the rod.but the differences in motors could only be like .001 of an inch or so.with used motors i can see it being nessaccary to have at least 2 for each oil for the sake of the bottom end issues.any ideas for an easier way to test viscosity breakdown?i'm not trying to get all personal with a micrometer and a truck load of weedeaters.i think the test would be fairly accurate considering if no 2 motors are the same then niether are jet ski motors.
jetskiking
Im done sanding!!!
- Location
- Dallas Georgia
I see what he is saying. All motors last different periods of time.so if you only had two you wouldn't know which one was the valid test. You would need at least one more to tilt the tables. As stated above I think proper maintenance like rebuilding top ends at recomended intervalls and performing inspections negates the problem although you dont change the oil in a 2stroke.
onesojourner
I use a thumb throttle.
- Location
- springfield, mo
heck you don't even need weed eater surely there is a company out there that sells cheap 2 stroke motors.
Boris
The Good Old Days
- Location
- The surf-less coast