Sources on 2-stroke theory - Performance related

Location
Wisconsin
In a world of jetskis where tribal knowledge trumps pretty much any other source of information, does anyone have any good sources as far as books, articles, manuals, etc. that scientifically explain performance extraction of 2-stroke engines? It does not need to be directly related to watercraft, although I realize that certain engine specifications are tailored for direct drive watercraft performance.

For example, the mystic art of engine porting. I often see posts discussing port duration/timing, blowdown, port geometry, among other things. I understand that the basic theory is to obtain enhanced air/fuel mixture flow characteristics by manipulating the OEM casting. From my understanding though, like I said before, seems to be based on years of trial and error and retained via tribal knowledge about what works well and how far you can take things. In my mind, all modern day engines have undergone serious CFD work to capture the flow regimes and patterns as the air fuel mix is delivered and how it performs within the combustion chamber. I could be wrong, but I would be surprised if any level of CFD has been analyzed on a 61x cylinder outside of what Yamaha has done of course. This leads to my next question without models, how apart from trial and error, is a well ported engine executed? How can you predict how a certain port shape or transfer timing will impact the end product?

I understand these are super loaded questions and no one necessarily wants to just give up secrets of the trade, which is more or less why I am asking for material to educate myself to understand better.
 
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DylanS

Gorilla Smasher
Location
Lebanon Pa
The two stroke tuners handbook is great for getting a fundamental understanding on most of the principals of two stroke tuning and is for sure a good place to start. It obviously wont cover water injection but that’s not a hard concept either.
You can pick up a lot of good information online too but you have to cherry pick what you want to believe. JC is right, you really cannot substitute knowledge for experience but it does help. When I first started out I just used a general understanding of two stroke port theory and gave it a go. I also had an old head that chimed in. I murdered a ton of cylinders in my day. The first set I did I told myself a hundred times I did not want to raise the exhaust port. So I started grinding on the bottom of the port only to realize i had the cylinders sitting upside down lol.

Experience = money and time which is obviously why a lot of guys that are selling a product safeguard their exact specs.
You can find some specs if you dig around on here though.
Templates are also an easy way to get a somewhat guaranteed result.

It would be cool if someone would write a book for skis but I believe the sport is too niche and the amount of guys actually building their own stuff seems to have tapered off significantly over the last decade
 
Location
dfw
Watercraft are easier to work with than wheeled vehicles. A large enough exhaust port and a pipe with steep cones will make good power for watercraft. This is because our rpm range is very narrow by comparison. A port/pipe combination that makes a ski fun would make a bike difficult to control. And then there's the pump, I've never gained any speed there but I have got them to prime and accelerate better. I have also found that nobody wants to actually learn anything, they just want to swipe their credit card and win a race or do a flip.
 
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WFO Speedracer

A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
Location
Alabama
The truth is all of the big guys got that way by learning what didn't work, that's right they modified exhaust and transfer port widths to the point the engine no longer made usable power, then used what they learned from their mistakes to build something that did work, this is why they don't give their porting specs away, they have too much time and money invested to do that, either pay someone to do the work for you, learn by trial and error yourself of find someone like Chris Newmiller that will run the numbers on his program and mark on your cylinders where exactly the ports need to be cut at. Even at that you need the right combo of porting, carburation, exhaust and impeller to get where you want to go.
 

DylanS

Gorilla Smasher
Location
Lebanon Pa
Watercraft are easier to work with than wheeled vehicles. A large enough exhaust port and a pipe with steep cones will make good power for watercraft. This is because our rpm range is very narrow by comparison. A port/pipe combination that makes a ski fun would make a bike difficult to control. And then there's the pump, I've never gained any speed there but I have got them to prime and accelerate better. I have also found that nobody wants to actually learn anything, they just want to swipe their credit card and win a race or do a flip.
I’d have to disagree with this one, I believe skis are the hardest hands down when it comes to fine tuning. It is so much easier to pick a tire size and sprocket combo on a bike/atv and know what works then it is to find the perfect combination of intake grate/prop/stator/bore/cone/etc.
There’s a lottttt more that goes into getting a ski dialed in and actually having it put power to the water. Then there’s assuming the rider can actually feel/tell the difference between riding sessions and assuming that the conditions are the same between rides lol.
I’d say between the two of them, as far as porting goes, a bike is a little more forgiving because of the transmission but it is hard to go completely wrong on a ski porting job.

I do agree with you wholeheartedly on the “nobody wants to build” thing though. Everyone wants to do cool tricks but no one wants to wrench !!! I think the coolest guys are the ones that can stand on the shore and troubleshoot your setup with some accuracy just by hearing it.
 
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Location
dfw
I’d have to disagree with this one, I believe skis are the hardest hands down when it comes to fine tuning. It is so much easier to pick a tire size and sprocket combo on a bike/atv and know what works then it is to find the perfect combination of intake grate/prop/stator/bore/cone/etc.
There’s a lottttt more that goes into getting a ski dialed in and actually having it put power to the water. Then there’s assuming the rider can actually feel/tell the difference between riding sessions and assuming that the conditions are the same between rides lol.
I’d say between the two of them, as far as porting goes, a bike is a little more forgiving because of the transmission but it is hard to go completely wrong on a ski porting job.

I do agree with you wholeheartedly on the “nobody wants to build” thing though. Everyone wants to do cool tricks but no one wants to wrench !!! I think the coolest guys are the ones that can stand on the shore and troubleshoot your setup with some accuracy just by hearing it.
Its certainly easier to change a sprocket than it is to pull an impeller and bend it. The pump load can be difficult to place right on top of the power bubble with a narrow power band. I often have to pull an impeller and do some bending several times before Im completely satisfied. Having perfect transfers is better but not a deal breaker unless you are racing someone who does have them. A small exhaust port or mild pipe will kill off a lot of torque at the rpm we are making thrust.
 

Myself

manic mechanic
Location
Twin Lakes AR
Don't forget to throw Rotax into the mix here! Now we also have a rotary valve we can modify for intake duration & timing like a performance camshaft!!
 

Jr.

Standing Tall
Staff member
Site Supporter
Location
Hot-Lanta
Having been in this Crazy game for35+ years, Yea its unique! Take a high output 2 stroke and cram it into a enclosed, high humidity environment and expect it to run like the book says! Ha ha Good Luck!
Those of us that have played this game as long as I have, just dont give up all the tricks! Its a very hard road of failures and very expensive mistakes to get here.
Best advise, trust in the builder you feel meets your desires. Listen to their wisdom, and move forward from there ! Dont forget to enjoy the ride!

P
 

Aquaholic

World's Oldest Teenager
Location
San Diego, CA.
Having been in this Crazy game for35+ years, Yea its unique! Take a high output 2 stroke and cram it into a enclosed, high humidity environment and expect it to run like the book says! Ha ha Good Luck!
Those of us that have played this game as long as I have, just dont give up all the tricks! Its a very hard road of failures and very expensive mistakes to get here.
Best advise, trust in the builder you feel meets your desires. Listen to their wisdom, and move forward from there ! Dont forget to enjoy the ride!

P
Who are you, again?
 
Location
Wisconsin
Thanks guys, I am not attempting to start a engine building business or anything like that. More or less just trying to learn more for the sake of knowledge, its all very interesting. "You have to run race gas with that setup". I always wonder 'why' but I think its because the knowledgeable guys know where the ragged edge exists on port geometry and where its taken too far simply because they've blown up a few too many engines over the years!
 

WFO Speedracer

A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
Location
Alabama
Thanks guys, I am not attempting to start a engine building business or anything like that. More or less just trying to learn more for the sake of knowledge, its all very interesting. "You have to run race gas with that setup". I always wonder 'why' but I think its because the knowledgeable guys know where the ragged edge exists on port geometry and where its taken too far simply because they've blown up a few too many engines over the years!
Race gas is required when you run compression over 170-180 PSI, below that threshold you can run 91 octane pump gas, the reason is detonation will occur and quickly destroy the engine.

Porting usually lowers compression slightly, more compression offers more bottom end hit but it is not recommended if you will continually be running the engine wide open or if you don't want to run gas with a high enough octane to support the higher compression..
 
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