Starting a side business

[meatball]

I started up a little side-business in fixing up jet skis and am going official with a business license and DBA etc. Anyways, I'm looking to test interest for a product.

I am fully capable, and knowledgeable in the making of 2-4 piece molds. I plan on making a mold of a superjet (with the lines possibly changed a little bit, like the back end getting shaped like an SXR with installation of grab handles). I would offer hulls of polyester and glass, epoxy and glass, and epoxy and carbon fiber. I would start out with just hulls, and develop lowered hoods, nose pieces and other parts sometime later. I could also make available top deck conversion hulls. All of this is still highly in the planning phase, and I'm just testing the water.

What price would you be willing to pay? Anyone possibly want to buy a hull? I was going to keep the regular superjet bottom hull exactly as is for a freestyle ride. Shortened hulls might also be available for extra money. Will also be trying to offer SN gas door nose piece (w/ and w/o the gas door), as well as SN and RN hoods (That's right, sqaurenose hoods), Nose pieces for round and squarenoses, Rideplates, and chinpads.

Any other suggestions of something someone would like to see in carbon fiber or composite?

-Kevin

 

[VegasRider]

Are you using a old mold from another company or making your own? Doing it in the garage?

 

[meatball]

I'm doing my own mold, and yea, pretty much in the garage. I also work on them for people and replace engines and whatnot (always using a motor lift, my back cant take that any more). I buy old skis, fix em up, anything to turn a buck.

What Im really looking for here is for people to suggest hull and parts prices (for a together hull, and top conversion, etc.)

-Kevin

 

[yamanube]

I would say good luck, the market seems a little saturated with nicely made and nicely priced hulls and topdecks. Do a little research on other setups, if you can beat their prices with similar or better construction/durability then you will have customers but you need to prove your hulls before they start flying off the shelves.

 

[snowxr]

I would say good luck, the market seems a little saturated with nicely made and nicely priced hulls and topdecks. Do a little research on other setups, if you can beat their prices with similar or better construction/durability then you will have customers but you need to prove your hulls before they start flying off the shelves.

x2 Find a niche part that nobody else makes, and you'll have a better shot. Heck, talk to Waterfreak, and he'll probably tell you that fixing couches is bigger business than building hulls. I built my own molds, and will tell you first hand that I don't sell many RN decks. There are a lot of choices now, and not a lot of buyers ( lots of tire kickers, though). SJL made a nice hood for a SN, and sold maybe 3. Waterfreak has the remaining stock, and would LOVE to sell them (if only all those people that said they wanted one would actually buy them).

Sorry to be a nay sayer. Just don't want you waste a lot of effort on a pipe dream without knowing how small the market is.

 

[WaveDemon]

I agree with the people here so far. to get people to buy you'll have to price yourself very low. the problem with very low prices is that people assume you're a hack. you're best bet is to make parts, lots of them, and give them away. Make an investment in branding.

no one trusts a start up.

 

[meatball]

Well I figured it would come to this. I was planning on selling them dirty cheap regardless. But what price do you consider dirty cheap? $2500 for a finished hull? (Finished hull would include all inserts, and the pump shoe) Im not exactly sure how much the invested epoxy and carbon fiber and inserts would cost.

I more or less wanted to make a mold so I could personally have a carbon fiber superjet, as theres no way Im paying for one. If I sell a few parts afterwards, then hells yea. I was also thinking about giving a couple away at cost so people can see what they're like.

All sound advice guys, but Im not worried about sales too much, I get enough business in mechanic and fiberglass/gelcoat work so that I have a good amount of other sources of income.

Below find a list of parts I want to make. If anyone likes any of the parts below or could picture yourself buying one, let me know!

Parts I may make:

• RN lowered and stock hood
• SN hood
• SN nose piece cover (w/ and w/o fuel door)
• RN hull with different lines (I will make cutback hull sizes available)
• Blaster hull with same lines
• RN nosepiece lowered
• Nose (in case someone breaks theirs they can glass this one on)
• Back corners of ski (In case they are smashed off like mine was, you can glass one on)
• Battery Tray
• Pump reduction nozzle and steering nozzle
• Rideplates
• Chin pads
• Carbon Fiber exhaust tubes and scupper tubes/drain tubes
• Fuel Cap Cover Insert (for covering stock fuel assembly hole when switching to internal fuel fill)
• PTO coupler cover

If anyone else has any ideas, they are gladly welcomed

 

[yamanube]

Well I figured it would come to this. I was planning on selling them dirty cheap regardless. But what price do you consider dirty cheap? $2500 for a hull? Im not exactly sure how much the invested epoxy and carbon fiber and inserts would cost.

I more or less wanted to make a mold so I could personally have a carbon fiber superjet, as theres no way Im paying for one. If I sell a few parts afterwards, then hells yea. I was also thinking about giving a couple away at cost so people can see what they're like.

All sound advice guys, but Im not worried about sales too much, I get enough business in mechanic and fiberglass/gelcoat work so that I have a good amount of other sources of income.

Below find a list of parts I want to make. If anyone likes any of the parts below or could picture yourself buying one, let me know!

Parts I may make:

• RN lowered and stock hood
• SN hood
• SN nose piece cover (w/ and w/o fuel door)
• RN hull with different lines (I will make cutback hull sizes available)
• RN nosepiece lowered
• Nose (in case someone breaks theirs they can glass this one on)
• Battery Tray
• Pump reduction nozzle and steering nozzle
• Rideplates
• Chin pads
• Carbon Fiber exhaust tubes and scupper tubes/drain tubes
• Fuel Cap Cover Insert (for covering stock fuel assembly hole when switching to internal fuel fill)
• PTO coupler cover

If anyone else has any ideas, they are gladly welcomed

If you are not to worried about sales you have probably already started on the wrong foot to "start a side buisness" sounds like a great hobby but poor buisness plan. All those parts you listed are currently available so like stated earlier you will have to undercut the price and/or overshoot the quality. I bet the highroller/team bill team, waterfreak, bobby at trinity or any other custom builder would be more than willing to give you sound advice in getting into the buisness of custom composites.

 

[The Penguin]

Well I figured it would come to this. I was planning on selling them dirty cheap regardless. But what price do you consider dirty cheap? $2500 for a hull? Im not exactly sure how much the invested epoxy and carbon fiber and inserts would cost.

I more or less wanted to make a mold so I could personally have a carbon fiber superjet, as theres no way Im paying for one. If I sell a few parts afterwards, then hells yea. I was also thinking about giving a couple away at cost so people can see what they're like.

All sound advice guys, but Im not worried about sales too much, I get enough business in mechanic and fiberglass/gelcoat work so that I have a good amount of other sources of income.

Below find a list of parts I want to make. If anyone likes any of the parts below or could picture yourself buying one, let me know!

Parts I may make:

• RN lowered and stock hood
• SN hood
• SN nose piece cover (w/ and w/o fuel door)
• RN hull with different lines (I will make cutback hull sizes available)
• RN nosepiece lowered
• Nose (in case someone breaks theirs they can glass this one on)
• Battery Tray
• Pump reduction nozzle and steering nozzle
• Rideplates
• Chin pads
• Carbon Fiber exhaust tubes and scupper tubes/drain tubes
• Fuel Cap Cover Insert (for covering stock fuel assembly hole when switching to internal fuel fill)
• PTO coupler cover

If anyone else has any ideas, they are gladly welcomed

with the "business plan" you are proposing - it would be much cheaper for you to just go buy a carbon fiber hull.

you might not be making money in this venture - but it sure sounds like you will be losing it.

 

[yamanube]

You really want to make something custom to show of your skills and get people intersted in what you are doing build something that has not been built, make something out of composites that has never been made from composites before, don't try to break into a market that can barely support itself as it is....build a carbon fiber TL flywheel with a steel hub and steel ring gear

 

[the only couch rider]

Well I figured it would come to this. I was planning on selling them dirty cheap regardless. But what price do you consider dirty cheap? $2500 for a finished hull? (Finished hull would include all inserts, and the pump shoe) Im not exactly sure how much the invested epoxy and carbon fiber and inserts would cost.

I more or less wanted to make a mold so I could personally have a carbon fiber superjet, as theres no way Im paying for one. If I sell a few parts afterwards, then hells yea. I was also thinking about giving a couple away at cost so people can see what they're like.

All sound advice guys, but Im not worried about sales too much, I get enough business in mechanic and fiberglass/gelcoat work so that I have a good amount of other sources of income.

Below find a list of parts I want to make. If anyone likes any of the parts below or could picture yourself buying one, let me know!

Parts I may make:

• RN lowered and stock hood
• SN hood
• SN nose piece cover (w/ and w/o fuel door)
• RN hull with different lines (I will make cutback hull sizes available)
• Blaster hull with same lines
• RN nosepiece lowered
• Nose (in case someone breaks theirs they can glass this one on)
• Back corners of ski (In case they are smashed off like mine was, you can glass one on)
• Battery Tray
• Pump reduction nozzle and steering nozzle
• Rideplates
• Chin pads
• Carbon Fiber exhaust tubes and scupper tubes/drain tubes
• Fuel Cap Cover Insert (for covering stock fuel assembly hole when switching to internal fuel fill)
• PTO coupler cover

If anyone else has any ideas, they are gladly welcomed

penguin said this earlier.... its cheaper for you to just buy one... you gotta remember your gonna have upfront costs to make the mold and then the materials cost to actually make the hull

ask shawn_nj what he has into materials for his X2 hull.....

 

[meatball]

Well, I didnt mean I dont care about making money, however I wouldn't care about this being a primary source of income, just a secondary thing that I do on the side. I have 2 people who work for me doing things like painting, vacuum bagging, etc. so all I have to do is price out the materials cost, subtract the labor cost, and then add the profit I want to get a price. I wouldn't have to really be involved at all with building the things, I would just oversee it and make sure it's done properly and consistently. So I look at it as a 'why-not' situation.

Any hulls I would 'give out' to get the industry familiar with myself I would charge the cost of materials, and the cost of labor (unless I do it myself). No money to be made, but none lost either.

Again, these ideas are still very much so free-floating and I don't plan on making every single one, just rather what I need at the time (of course!) and what people might want.

I don't see how it would be cheaper to buy a carbon fiber hull then it would be to build one. Sure you have the mold to pay for, but it doesnt cost that much, and the materials cost is nothing compared to the cost of a hull. The only way I see myself not making money is if I dont sell what I make. That could happen, but I already know immediately of a few people interested that live locally around me, so I could at least move a few things before I run out of market.

Besides, I've always wanted to make my own hull, I made a 16 foot boat once, now I wanna make a jetski so I can claim it fully my own blood. Nothing cooler then saying "I made that from scratch" And if I make a couple bucks while doing it, then cool. If not, then I wont lose that much money on just a few hulls (as in 1 or 2). I'm not planning on going and making a ton of parts to have sit around my basement.

One last question though, are sales ty because no one wants these or is it because of the economy (meaning it should get better)

-Kevin

 

[The Penguin]

penguin said this earlier.... its cheaper for you to just buy one... you gotta remember your gonna have upfront costs to make the mold and then the materials cost to actually make the hull

ask shawn_nj what he has into materials for his X2 hull.....

bingo - there's a good place to start.

 

[Idok]

One last question though, are sales ty because no one wants these or is it because of the economy (meaning it should get better)



both

 

[the only couch rider]

Well, I didnt mean I dont care about making money, however I wouldn't care about this being a primary source of income, just a secondary thing that I do on the side. I have 2 people who work for me doing things like painting, vacuum bagging, etc. so all I have to do is price out the materials cost, subtract the labor cost, and then add the profit I want to get a price. I wouldn't have to really be involved at all with building the things, I would just oversee it and make sure it's done properly and consistently. So I look at it as a 'why-not' situation.

Any hulls I would 'give out' to get the industry familiar with myself I would charge the cost of materials, and the cost of labor (unless I do it myself). No money to be made, but none lost either.

Again, these ideas are still very much so free-floating and I don't plan on making every single one, just rather what I need at the time (of course!) and what people might want.

I don't see how it would be cheaper to buy a carbon fiber hull then it would be to build one. Sure you have the mold to pay for, but it doesnt cost that much, and the materials cost is nothing compared to the cost of a hull. The only way I see myself not making money is if I dont sell what I make. That could happen, but I already know immediately of a few people interested that live locally around me, so I could at least move a few things before I run out of market.

Besides, I've always wanted to make my own hull, I made a 16 foot boat once, now I wanna make a jetski so I can claim it fully my own blood. Nothing cooler then saying "I made that from scratch" And if I make a couple bucks while doing it, then cool. If not, then I wont lose that much money on just a few hulls (as in 1 or 2). I'm not planning on going and making a ton of parts to have sit around my basement.

One last question though, are sales ty because no one wants these or is it because of the economy (meaning it should get better)

-Kevin

if you already have the people doing the things you need done to make a hull, why are you considering it a side business? you make it more of the focal point of the business than a side project

as far as not being involved in the process and just overseeing the process.... it seems like you really haven't put that much thought into this.

ask any of the top guys/builders if they aren't hands on and see what they say. steve@wcf makes his hulls, bobby@trinity does his stuff, wamilton does his own stuff, Sergio@XFt..... all hands on guys not just sitting back and watching things happen...

 

[yamanube]

From the setup it sounds like you have, you may be better off selling moderate quality round nose "style hulls" made with a durable fiberglass construction for dirt cheap than high quality freestyle hulls from carbon. Obviously you would have the molds and supplies to make a nice carbon hull but being able to churn out cheap hulls for people looking to convert from a SN or hit the water on a cheap build with good looks would be a much better direction to go. I would imagine you would sell WAY more good looking (well styled) hulls with decent construction for around $1000 than a full blown carbon freestyle hull. There are a lot of middle class, low(er) income riders looking for cheap solutions eager to spend a little money than deep pocketed riders looking to buy a full blown ski from an up and comer. It would be awesome to see some midweight freeride hulls with modern styling at a disposable price, thrash it for a couple years, throw it in the garbage buy a new one.
I would rather spend $1000-1500 on a shorter, wider freeride hull that holds all my RN stuff, has similar durability to the RN hull and I don't feel bad about spraying with a few cans of krylon, banging into the dock and doing some reinforcement work.

 

[WaveDemon]

If you are not to worried about sales you have probably already started on the wrong foot to "start a side buisness" sounds like a great hobby but poor buisness plan.

he gets to deduct material cost if he does sell some (business or hobby). so his approach sounds good enough to me. Remember, the only time to try and get a deduction is if you were going to spend the money anyway. So, don't spend money thinking it going to save you money. It doesn't work that way.

keep track of your receipts, if you do this "as a business" you get to depreciate 100% any equipment you buy to do this year (and materials depending on your situation).

you can operate your sole proprietorship (which is what you're doing with a DBA) at a loss and save money on your personal tax return.

 

[Big Kahuna]

Well, I didnt mean I dont care about making money, however I wouldn't care about this being a primary source of income, just a secondary thing that I do on the side. I have 2 people who work for me doing things like painting, vacuum bagging, etc. so all I have to do is price out the materials cost, subtract the labor cost, and then add the profit I want to get a price. I wouldn't have to really be involved at all with building the things, I would just oversee it and make sure it's done properly and consistently. So I look at it as a 'why-not' situation.

Any hulls I would 'give out' to get the industry familiar with myself I would charge the cost of materials, and the cost of labor (unless I do it myself). No money to be made, but none lost either.

Again, these ideas are still very much so free-floating and I don't plan on making every single one, just rather what I need at the time (of course!) and what people might want.

I don't see how it would be cheaper to buy a carbon fiber hull then it would be to build one. Sure you have the mold to pay for, but it doesnt cost that much, and the materials cost is nothing compared to the cost of a hull. The only way I see myself not making money is if I dont sell what I make. That could happen, but I already know immediately of a few people interested that live locally around me, so I could at least move a few things before I run out of market.

Besides, I've always wanted to make my own hull, I made a 16 foot boat once, now I wanna make a jetski so I can claim it fully my own blood. Nothing cooler then saying "I made that from scratch" And if I make a couple bucks while doing it, then cool. If not, then I wont lose that much money on just a few hulls (as in 1 or 2). I'm not planning on going and making a ton of parts to have sit around my basement.

One last question though, are sales ty because no one wants these or is it because of the economy (meaning it should get better)

-Kevin

Hypothetical:

You build and sell 5 hulls at a low price, with very little Overhead & Profit added in. 3 of those 5 hulls get sent back for warranty issues. Owners are all expecting 3 new replacements. Can you afford to replace those hulls "out of pocket" with a low profit business plan?

Not questioning your work or ethics. Just something to think about.

I would look at poles, hoods before I would hulls.

 

[meatball]

Thanks guys.

I made it an LLC so as not to present myself too big a risk if I get sued. I still need to contact a lawyer to make sure my ass is covered in the event someone gets angry at me and says "well he tampered with the throttle return spring and thats why it crashed" you can see how it could possibly happen.

the guys I have work for me do most of the fiberglassing work, and all of the paint/gelcoat work, and I would have them assemble these hulls. I already looked into cost of vacuum bagging equipment and everything, and just need to figure out a lay up schedule so I can calculate how much carbon fiber and epoxy I need to use.

I'm not too worried about losing money, I view all tooling purchased as a plus, as I can reuse it over and over and probably will, as I always can use a custom part here and there. If made by waiting for orders to come in, then making the hulls, yes the wait time is significantly increased, but the chance of losing money is far less.

No I haven't put a ton of thought into it. I just know that I am going to build at least a carbon fiber hull for myself, if only for my own personal victory and the experience I will gain in doing so (which I cherish). I will probably make one more after that (because I know I can sell it to a local if anything) and see how long it takes to flip. That will be the judge of whether or not I really want in on this business. From then on, I'll probably make them as they are ordered so I dont have any parts stock and therefore I dont need storage. I will offer this to my current customers, as well as online, although I anticipate my current local customers are far more accepting with open wallets then the online community, so it'll be a make as I go kinda thing.

I am keeping track of all the records and whatnot, and have been making most all my money on fixing mechanical problems with skis. Especially motor replacements.

Again my main business resides in motor replacements, diagnosing, etc. So Im not too worried about it. If it ends up not working, oh well, Ill have tools and materials for the next boat I build (probably a 21-26 footer) so it'll get used eventually.

This isn't so much of a business per say as it is an itch. I love building stuff and get joy out of scratch-making. Yea it's the wrong business philosophy but oh well, I always have my primary repair business to fall back on.

 

[Big Kahuna]

Hey, if it is for your personal use, go for it.