will Ethanol effect ski performance?

[Wolf Child]

I finally got my SXi runing right. but the carb settings are nowhere near the stock settings. So while trying to figure out what caused the sudden change in the way it ran from MI the here, I realized the fuel in FL has a MUCH higher Ethanol content than it does in MI... at least where i lived. Almost 10%

does anyone believe this could be a factor? I remember in the 70's Ethanol really made a mess out of engine internals and performance.

 

[WFO Speedracer]

The more ethanol content,the bigger the jets will have to be to compensate.

 

[Big Kahuna]

also your elevation may be much different

 

[Freakrider]

I read once that ethanol has a "lower heat of combustion"...so you do not get as much power/energy output ounce for ounce as gasoline...not as good mpg in cars and lower jumps on ski... :banghead:

 

[WFO Speedracer]

That is correct it does not produce the same power for given amount of fuel,thats why the jets have to be substantially larger to run pure ethanol,there are also only certain types of oil that will mix with it and at that it will not stay mixed for long periods of time.

 

[Wolf Child]

yep.. I hate it more and more.

So wedo.. what do you think? Up one size on jets going from 500ft and 0% ethanol to 0ft and 10% corn juice?

I'm currently running my screws .75~ 1.5 turns out from stock just to get it to run right.

 

[WFO Speedracer]

That would probably get you close.

 

[3wheelerdude]

In the past 10 years, E15 (15% Ethanol) has been introduced in Canada and now that is all I can find around here. After speaking with my bro in-law who is a MX mecanic (for Honda and KTM for reference), he was telling that they have to increase fuel ratio's in order to adjust with the ethanol content on bikes that run pump gas.

Since then I have been keeping an eye on my spark plugs and I think I will start experimenting with diffeent jettings.

 

[ATS_Scott]

Like stated before it takes more ethanol to get the same Air/fuel ratios as 100% Gasoline. at a 10% mix, I wouldn't worry about it much. Maybe give the screws half a turn out, you shouldn't need different jets.

Yes it does burn cooler, but again as e10 you won't see much of a difference.

My biggest worry is ethanol attracts and absorbs water. When it gets saturated enough, the ethanol will separate from the gasoline and sink to the bottom of the tank....

So far here in Texas it hasn't been a problem, and we have had e10 for several years.

 

[Rancid]

Ethanol also has better resistance to detonation. If you run E85 (85% ethanol) and properly tune for it, you can gain more power. Also, at the current price of E85 compared to premium gasoline, you'll save $/hour of operation. The reduced mileage is very little.

 

[Waternut]

Ethanol also has better resistance to detonation. If you run E85 (85% ethanol) and properly tune for it, you can gain more power. Also, at the current price of E85 compared to premium gasoline, you'll save $/hour of operation. The reduced mileage is very little.

That is the biggest issue. Heck most of us can't even get our carbs perfect under normal conditions. Wouldn't you have to run all new fuel lines? Also, would the regular carb rebuild kits hold up to being constantly saturated in E85? I also think you'd want to run a water seperator in the fuel lines too to be on the safe side.

 

[mooseye]

I read about it melting fuel tanks in boats, but I think that was fiberglass built in thans.
Also, it is death to a weedwacker or such 2 cycle.

 

[ATS_Scott]

Ethanol also has better resistance to detonation. If you run E85 (85% ethanol) and properly tune for it, you can gain more power. Also, at the current price of E85 compared to premium gasoline, you'll save $/hour of operation. The reduced mileage is very little.

Yes it does resist knock better than gasoline, it's 104-105 octane or thereabouts. But you need 30% more E85 to = the same A/F ratio's you'd run with gasoline. That means your fuel "mileage" drops by about 30%, which increases your $/hour.

I ran E85 in my Turbo MR2 for about a year. Compared to the cost of 93 octane, I could get about the same cost/mile, but I could make 60hp more.

To see the benefit in a normally aspirated (no turbo) jetski, you'd want to run the compression up to race gas levels. And you could still advance timing a couple of degrees too.

Another thing to consider is whether normal 2-stroke mixing oil is compatible with that much ethanol. It probably is, but I don't know for sure.

E85 is more corrosive to aluminum than gasoline, but not that much more corrosive. I didn't see ANY signs of corrosion in my fuel system after almost a year of E85 use (in my MR2).

 

[Rancid]

30%? Thats a pretty high number. In most cases, 15% to at most 20% less "mileage" is seen. 30% is just ridiculous.

 

[ATS_Scott]

If you need 30% more E85 than you do gasoline to = the same Air/Fuel ratio, then how do you only get 10% worse "mileage"?

 

[Waternut]

30%? Thats a pretty high number. In most cases, 15% to at most 20% less "mileage" is seen. 30% is just ridiculous.

In normal cars 30% is a pretty accurate number. The following 2008 cars run this kind of downfall and the trend is pretty consistant throughout other e85 cars:
Chevy impala: gas 18/28, e85 13/20 28% loss
Dodge avenger: gas 19/27 e85 13/20 29% loss
Dodge Durango: gas 13/17 e85 9/12 30% loss
Jeep Grand Cherokee: gas 13/19 e85 9/12 34% loss

Granted these cars are setup on flex fuel and are obviously not setup to fully take advantage of e85 but they do have computers that help compensate for the change.

 

[six5hooSX]

I've tried this twice. Straight e85 will not mix with valvoline two stroke oil or shell two stroke oil. It immediately seperates, oil on top e85 on bottom.

 

[Rancid]

My buddy in Colorado is a HUGE E85 guru. After 9000 miles of testing, here is what he had to say about his experience in a full size car engine:

How much will my miles per gallon of fuel drop with E85?

The only negative to E85 is that it gives a lower fuel milage on a gallon for gallon basis to gasoline. The actual difference in energy content between straight gasoline and E85 is about 27%.

The drop in milage is not as significant as you would think based on that difference due to the higher effeciency of the ethanol as a high performance fuel. This winter I was getting about 92% of the fuel milage I would get on gasoline on 100% E85.

The lower milage is not really a big deal, ethanol has lower energy per gallon but your reduction in milage is not nearly as large as that difference would imply. Due to the higher torque,you use slightly smaller throttle openings to get the same level of preformance, and due to the greater quantity of combustion products (more moles of gas) per lb of fuel the engine effeciency actually goes up slightly. My long term fuel milage average is in the vicinity of 24.5 mpg, with pump gas, and with 75% ethanol blend, I was getting just over 23 mpg driven normally. Recently I have been flogging the crap out of the car to sort out new boost controller settings for my new turbo (went from a 13G to a 16G). Given I now have a larger turbo and all that is hardly a noticable fuel milage drop. I have gotten around 300 -345 miles/tank on straight gasoline when I was bone stock, and I expect to get from 280 - 310 miles per tank on the E-85 based on my notes of fuel consumption and accounting for the unusually hard driving I have been doing the last week working on the boost controller settings.

In very cold weather <20deg F I don't go above about 90% E85 to improve cold starting and speed up engine warm up a bit. Other than that the car loves E85 and so does my wallet ---- $1.89/gallon (6/2005) for 100 octane fuel is hard to argue with. It only drops my fuel milage a small amount. I get 93.76% of my gasoline milage when driving conservatively in my WRX with the larger injectors and high ethanol fuel blends.

In properly tuned engines, a 30% mileage drop is ultra rare. I've never personally seen it on any E85 tuned cars.

 

[Duds]

In the past 10 years, E15 (15% Ethanol) has been introduced in Canada and now that is all I can find around here.

Shell V-Power does not contain any ethanol.