Zeel Y62T question

[Never Enuff]

I was setting up my Zeel Y62T for my FX-1 and noticed a difference in the Delay Compensation value from what I found here on the forum vs what Wax has on his website? They values here on the website show 150us vs Wax’s Zeel file from his website of 30us? Which should it be? I was going to measure it, but if someone has already done the legwork, no point in reinventing the wheel.
Thx.

 

[Storbeck]

Are you comparing wax's setup for a 64x 760 ignition (kind of the OG zeel) to a y62t that uses the stock 62t ignition? They are very different so it wouldn't be surprising if that setting needs to be different.

The man himself would know more detail maybe he'll chime in.

Also I think jr was having involved in the creation of the 62t version, so also might get him to comment.

 

[Big Kahuna]

@Jr.

 

[Jr.]

This is a screenshot of the stock Y62T settings.
you need to use these on all Y62T zeel cdi
0f course your maps will be differant according to motor requirments

P

 

[waxhead]

This is a screenshot of the stock Y62T settings.
you need to use these on all Y62T zeel cdi
0f course your maps will be different according to motor requirements

P

What he said. Yes we were both involved on the y62t.

 

[Never Enuff]

What he said. Yes we were both involved on the y62t.

Wax,

This is a sceenshot of the file from your site:
waxv362t.zee

 

[waxhead]

Yes thats right. thats a tuff curve and you will like it

 

[Never Enuff]

Wax,

The Delay Compensation is 30us? Is this correct?

I definitely like the looks of the v3 timing curve and going to give it a rip.

Thx

 

[Storbeck]

I think his question is why jr uses 150 microsecond delay compensation but the wax screenshot has 30.

 

[Jr.]

I think his question is why jr uses 150 microsecond delay compensation but the wax screenshot has 30.

What I posted is screenshot of how it comes from Zeel………..
never said what I set to or why…….. nor was it asked.

the default program value is 30
delay compensation ensures correct ignition angle thru entire rpm range.
so it needs to be larger than the static angle.

P

 

[beerdart]

What I posted is screenshot of how it comes from Zeel………..
never said what I set to or why…….. nor was it asked.

the default program value is 30
delay compensation ensures correct ignition angle thru entire rpm range.
so it needs to be larger than the static angle.

P

How does Delay compensation effect static angle.

 

[beerdart]

This is the time/delay for the ignition to actually fire from the time it was enabled by the ECU and is dependent on the ignition system and coils.

 

[Storbeck]

What I posted is screenshot of how it comes from Zeel………..
never said what I set to or why…….. nor was it asked.

the default program value is 30
delay compensation ensures correct ignition angle thru entire rpm range.
so it needs to be larger than the static angle.

P

The original post specifically asked about microsecond delay compensation so I would say yes it was asked.

You posted a screenshot that showed 150, I took that as a recommendation. I guess I should have said "jr appears to recommend" instead of 'jr uses' but my comment was meant for wax because it looked like you had already answered the question and my confusion was why wax had a different number.

 

[waxhead]

I honestly never worry about it. I set the static angle with a timing light and we are done.

 

[Storbeck]

If I'm doing the math right, 150 vs 30 microseconds would be about a 5 degree difference at 7000rpm.

Right around a degree at 1500.

So if somebody set the static angle with a timing light at 1500, the difference in that setting would cause about a 4 degree difference at 7000.

OOOOR...I might have it completely wrong how that setting works, which is also a very strong possibility.

 

[beerdart]

From zeel prog. Compensation It is compensation of signal delay from pickup to spark plugs. You can check this delay with stroboscope lamp. Without this compensation, ignition advance angle decreasing with rising revs. Compensation helps that ignition advance is correct (accurate). How to check, if compensation is correct: Set flat ignition curve...16deg advance is suitable for most engines Measure with stroboscope lamp, if mark at flywheel moving when changing revs. If mark moves, then change compensation delay.

Delay Compensation...ensure correct ignition angle through whole revs. Default value is 30us.

 

[beerdart]

A microsecond is a unit of time. The symbol for microsecond is μs.

The base unit for a microsecond is second and the prefix is micro. The prefix micro is derived from the Greek mikrós meaning small and is symbolized as μ. Micro denotes a factor of one millionth (10-6) which means that there are 1,000,000 microseconds in a second.

 

[Storbeck]

So the directions just spell it out crystal clear.



I *think* the idea here is that there is some amount of time required for the plug to fire, so if the cdi tried to fire the plug at exactly the right time you'd be lagging the intended timing by that length of time. Since there are more degrees of crankshaft movement in a given length of time at higher rpms, you can't just compensate with static angle you need a time factor.

So the cdi calculates the amount of time between the trigger and the firing of the plug based on static angle and rpm, then subtracts off that "delay compensation". Too small and you'll lag behind, your whole curve will be lower than you think, greater error at higher rpm, and too much and your whole curve will shift up, more at higher rpm.

I...think.

 

[Never Enuff]

Thanks everyone for replying.

As posted above from one of the Zeel Manuals: Delay Compensation - It is compensation of signal delay from pickup to spark plugs. You can check this delay with stroboscope lamp. Without this compensation, ignition advance angle decreasing with rising revs. This compensation helps that advance angles in ignition curve are real (more accurate). How to check, if compensation is correct: First you must set flat ignition curve. Then measure with stroboscope lamp, if mark at flywheel moving when changing revs. If mark moving, then you must change compensation delay.

Storbeck, I get the same math calculations that you did. In this case the difference between the two configurations is 120 microseconds, that would calculate to these timing differences at the different rpms.

1000 rpm timing change 0.72°
2000 rpm 1.44°
3000 rpm 2.16°
4000 rpm 2.88°
5000 rpm 3.60°
6000 rpm 4.32°
7000 rpm 5.04°
8000 rpm 5.76°

My take-a-way from this is that I would not want to run the Wax V3 curve with a 150us Delay compensation. It would have the possible timing values:

1000 rpm 18.72 degrees
2000 rpm 35.44 degrees
3000 rpm 36.16 degrees
5000 rpm 37.88 degrees
6800 rpm 22.90 degrees
8000 rpm 23.76 degrees


Wax, thanks for all your hard work and testing on this. I will just run your curve with the 30 microsecond Delay Compensation. You have tested and proved it works.

Jr, also thank you for all your great information that you share with everyone. All of this saves everyone lots of time and energy testing setups.

I will probably test to determine the correct "Delay Compensation" and create a timing curve that will work with it, or maybe we could talk OCD Solutions into measuring it on his test bench?

 

[Storbeck]

My plan, when I get around to setting up my 62t, is to program a flat curve, say 15 degrees, check with timing light at various different rpm's and adjust the delay until I get a flat curve, then re-adjust the static angle if needed so that the timing matches my programed value.

To me, ideally you want the delay setting "correct" so that things don't vary with rpm, then you want the static offset "correct" so that you get the actual curve that you program, then program your curve.

But, in reality, as long as whatever combination of settings you have works, then it doesn't actually matter, you just have to be careful using somebody else's curve if you're not sure if the delay and/or static angle are not set up the same as yours or if there is something about their combination that would cause things to be different, because you might end up effectively with a different curve and not know it.

Definitely appreciate both Wax and Jr without their efforts we'd still be talking about how far to turn the stator with an enhancer.