01 superjet won't start?

[Russ Kok]

I went to fire up my ski in my drive way the other day before taking it out. Made a clicking noise and sounded like it wanted to fire but nothing. Tried choking it and threw some starter fluid into the carb. Tried a few more times and then it just stopped making noise completely. Rode a few days earlier and ran great all day. Charged my battery and still nothing, even took it to advance to have them test it. Checked the ground, took apart my on/off cleaned it up and tested it, disconnected the black and white wire connections, and still nothing. Read a few other forums and sounds like a solenoid, starter, or positive cables? Any advice slash suggestions?

 

[Tyler Zane]

Put a volt meter across the battery and turn it on VDC.

Hold the start button and watch the meter. If it only drops a few tents then its likely you solinod that's bad(all your seeing is the load of the solenoid because its not connecting the high amperage side of the solenoid).

If it drops several volts but nothing else is happening then it could be anything from cables to a starter to a locked up engine.

Spin the engine over by hand to ensure its not mechanical.

To test cables you need to do a voltage drop test.

If all that checks out then check amperage draw on the starter under normal cranking with plugs in.

 

[Russ Kok]

Threw a volt meter on the batteries and it 12.53 with it off and 12.30 while holding the start button.

 

[chevota84]

Did you check voltage drop at the battery?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Russ Kok]

Threw a screwdriver over the two prongs on the solenoid and it cranked.

 

[Jet_jase]

Clean up all battery cable connections and try adding another earth cable to the battery from the motor.

 

[Russ Kok]

Obviously the relay is bad because it cranked when jumping it with a screwdriver?

 

[JetManiac]

Obviously the relay is bad because it cranked when jumping it with a screwdriver?

Correct because you know it has power since you said before you could hear it clicking.

 

[Tyler Zane]

Did you check voltage drop at the battery?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

That's exactly what the third post is.

Clean up all battery cable connections and try adding another earth cable to the battery from the motor.

Not a bad idea, but not the problem


Just so everyone is clear, its a solenoid not a relay. And yes its bad.

 

[Jet_jase]

Obviously the relay is bad because it cranked when jumping it with a screwdriver?

Yeh ma bad didn't read it cranked, Glad you found this issue.

 

[JetManiac]

Just so everyone is clear, its a solenoid not a relay. And yes its bad.

What do you mean by this?

 

[Jhucke]

What do you mean by this?

I believe the difference between a relay and a solenoid is that the relay is essentially a mechanical movement for a simple on/off switch but the solenoid will do electrical work and engage gears, close a door, or whatever else. Which makes me confused why @Jet_jase would refer to what is in our ebox as a solenoid.. If it was a solenoid wouldn't it be mounted or somehow attached to the starter motor rather than just by electrical connection? One of us has it backwards.

 

[Tyler Zane]

What do you mean by this?

A solenoid is a high amperage switch, usually 30 amps or more. Its off or on.

A relay is only used in a starting circuit to assist a solenoid when the key switch is to far away to supply the solenoid with enough amperage (slave relay).

Relays are by design able to have a ground path when not activated. For example, a trim motor has 2 relays. Both are ground paths when neither is activated. When you energize one it switches to 12v positive and uses the ground path from the other relay to energize the motor and vise versa to spin the motor the other way.

Off topic, I'm sticking my foot in my mouth now.

 

[JetManiac]

I believe the difference between a relay and a solenoid is that the relay is essentially a mechanical movement for a simple on/off switch but the solenoid will do electrical work and engage gears, close a door, or whatever else. Which makes me confused why @Jet_jase would refer to what is in our ebox as a solenoid.. If it was a solenoid wouldn't it be mounted or somehow attached to the starter motor rather than just by electrical connection? One of us has it backwards.

A solenoid is a high amperage switch, usually 30 amps or more. Its off or on.

A relay is only used in a starting circuit to assist a solenoid when the key switch is to far away to supply the solenoid with enough amperage (slave relay).

Relays are by design able to have a ground path when not activated. For example, a trim motor has 2 relays. Both are ground paths when neither is activated. When you energize one it switches to 12v positive and uses the ground path from the other relay to energize the motor and vise versa to spin the motor the other way.

Off topic, I'm sticking my foot in my mouth now.

I asked because I have always thought of the 2 terms as interchangeable or very similiar.

re·lay
noun
ˈrēˌlā/

an electrical device, typically incorporating an electromagnet, that is activated by a current or signal in one circuit to open or close another circuit.

so·le·noid
noun
ˈsōləˌnoid,ˈsäləˌnoid/

a cylindrical coil of wire acting as a magnet when carrying electric current.

@augustaf
@OCD Solutions

 

[Tyler Zane]

If it was a solenoid wouldn't it be mounted or somehow attached to the starter motor rather than just by electrical connection? One of us has it backwards.

Not all solenoids mounted on starters engage the bendex, many are just high amperage switches that only energize the starter. Its ideal to have the solenoid on the starter so the high current doesn't have to travel far.

@JetManiac Those definitions are very vauge. I realize now that I looked the part up that they use both terms loosly depending on where you look it up. If you google image each term individually you will not see one of the other in the results.

With all that being said I have mad respect for you Chris, I wasn't calling you or anyone else out.

 

[Jet_jase]

I believe the difference between a relay and a solenoid is that the relay is essentially a mechanical movement for a simple on/off switch but the solenoid will do electrical work and engage gears, close a door, or whatever else. Which makes me confused why @Jet_jase would refer to what is in our ebox as a solenoid.. If it was a solenoid wouldn't it be mounted or somehow attached to the starter motor rather than just by electrical connection? One of us has it backwards.

I just mentioned cleaning up his connections from on the whole starter circuit as i've had issues in the past with salted up connections not giving the Solenoid enough 'Juice' to engage the starter/bendix. I'm no expert but spent plenty on time bent over a ski trying to problem solve....... so just trying to give my experience.

 

[JetManiac]

Not all solenoids mounted on starters engage the bendex, many are just high amperage switches that only energize the starter. Its ideal to have the solenoid on the starter so the high current doesn't have to travel far.

@JetManiac Those definitions are very vauge. I realize now that I looked the part up that they use both terms loosly depending on where you look it up. If you google image each term individually you will not see one of the other in the results.

With all that being said I have mad respect for you Chris, I wasn't calling you or anyone else out.

I know you aren't, but it is an interesting topic for discussion. I know most jet skiers, including myself, use both the terms interchangeably, but it is interesting to learn the differences in the terms.

 

[Tyler Zane]

I just mentioned cleaning up his connections from on the whole starter circuit as i've had issues in the past with salted up connections not giving the Solenoid enough 'Juice' to engage the starter/bendix. I'm no expert but spent plenty on time bent over a ski trying to problem solve....... so just trying to give my experience.

The solenoid is before the starter. It gets its "juice" threw the start/stop switch. A bad connection as the starter would result in high voltage drop.

Just for poops and giggles let's go over the starting system.

The solenoid has two circuits, the low amp side (ss swith) and the high amp side (starter). The high amp side is open until the low amp side is energized by the ss switch which in turn connects the two high amp terminals closing the circuit to the starter. So you have a cable that runs from the battery to the solenoid and a cable that runs from the solenoid to the starter. Once that circuit is energized it spins the starter which spins the bendex which gets thrown out by
centrifugal force.

The start circuit has nothing to so with the ignition circuit. The ignition comes alive once the flywheel has passed over the charge coil enough to charge up the capacitor in the cdi, and the pulse coil says "FIRE it now". I only mention the ignition circuit because I've had someone swear the ss switch excites the starter and fires the coil.

 

[Tyler Zane]

I know you aren't, but it is an interesting topic for discussion. I know most jet skiers, including myself, use both the terms interchangeably, but it is interesting to learn the differences in the terms.

It is intresting. I never knew the term was used loosely and work in the largest marina service center in the panhandle. Learning is fun!

 

[Ducky]

Potato Potado! If I am talking to someone and they start using the term relay, I will continue to use the word relay. If they start with solenoid, I will use solenoid. That way I know we are both on the same page.

But it is cool to learn the technicalities surround relays and solenoids.

Russ, I have an OEM relay hanging around somewhere...text me!