SXR '07 SXR Upgrades Sanity Check

[jlane330]

My 07 SXR is ready for some upgrades, and I figured I'd do it BEFORE riding season this year. I don't have a ton of money to spend, and would like to make good choices the first time. I've had the ski for 2 years now and know that I want a shorter pole. Here's the plan:

What's already done:
Bored nozzle
Advanced timing with wiring mod
0 deg UMI bars
Lock on grips
Ride plate is cut down
Milled stock head (not sure how much, blowing about 150 psi each cylinder, stock was 128-130 psi) [NOTE: I'm at 5000 ft elevation]
Leaned it for elevation, still a bit rich
Stock flame arrestor with rubber trumpets removed


Parts I already have, ready to install:
Automate bilge pump and plumbing (need a switch and mounting bracket)
Port intake manifold to match carb base


Upgrade plan:
TBM charging flywheel (how about Jetnetics?)
X-metal handlepole
Turf over chinpad
Kommander steering system
TBM head with ?cc domes (I always run premium pump gas, premix with Klotz Skicraft) Do I need a girlded head?
Block off front intake hole
Remove stock rail caps and turf over (ripped stock rail cap currently)
Adjustable flow control valve


Would love to at this time, not sure I can afford it this go around:
Factory wet pipe + rejet

I have no problem doing the work myself and have the tools to do it. I know I can get the stock flywheel machined versus AM, but I'd rather do the job once the best possible way if there's a noticeable difference in performance gain. Same with milling stock head, rather be able to easily remove/replace with O-rings versus head gasket so I can check jetting. If I pull the engine, I'll also grind the adhesive inside to clean it up. Engine is in good shape, low hours, and runs well. I'm sure it's definitely down on power due to altitude, at least. Does all of this look reasonable? Is the TBM head a good choice? Dome size recommendations? Do I need a girdled head? I'd love to get an AM hull and save a ton of weight...not gonna happen right now.

Thanks for the sanity check!

 

[Shonuff]

Your best power upgrades are the pipe and the flywheel. I like the bilge pump (I just glue mine down but I'm thinking about a bracket)

TBM domes are the most expensive domes so remember that.

I prefer the stock rails over turf so I'm no help there.

I really like the looks of the X-Metal poles.

Good luck.

 

[Shonuff]

Think about a TDR waterbox. They kick ass.

 

[OCD Solutions]

The ATP waterbox is pretty sweet too. Either one will open up more room up front for the RRP breather tubes.

 

[jlane330]

Thanks guys! Since the stock rail caps are torn (at least one side)...something has to be done. As for head, I forgot to ask about the difference in heads. I listed the TBM in the top post. The domes don't look to be too expensive, at least in comparison to the Kommander domes. So, what about the Kommander head? It's definitely more expensive since it does not include domes, BUT I can get a 27cc dome, which might be perfect for my elevation versus the 26 or 28cc choices of TBM. Here's the cost of the non-girdled choices:

Kommander: $291 (head) + $164 (2 domes)
TBM: $269 including domes

Seems like the TBM girdle design is better (none of those offset nuts/shims to deal with) if I need a girdled head. Is the Kommander $186 better? What am I missing?

 

[TimotaLT]

Def cut the excess glue out on the bond line it all adds up and turf the rails for sure the stock ones suck and always tear, i have an x-metal water box really light and small but loud as hell.

 

[djkorn1]

Keep your stock head and get the pipe.

 

[eastbay]

i would have zero lighten your stock fly , and recut your stock head so you know what you got, bpipe....you wont notice a difference between a tbm fly and a zero cut one except in your wallet and the bpipe you can buy instead

 

[rollin5150]

Get a wetpipe for your next mod.
One thing to note about a girdled head. If you go Kommander, you will have to machine your cylinders. TBM and ADA you do not.

 

[jlane330]

Def cut the excess glue out on the bond line it all adds up and turf the rails for sure the stock ones suck and always tear, i have an x-metal water box really light and small but loud as hell.

Yep...seems super easy to cut out the excess glue. Not sure what it'd do for weight reduction (minimal I'm guessing), but the OCD side of me hates seeing it there all sloppy. I'm excited to turf the rails, and see several mentions of underpadding before turfing over. How thick of underpad are people using. I've seen 1/4, 1/2 and even 1 inch mentioned (or the metric equivalents). Would 1/2 be reasonable?

Would you guys recommend the 3M self-adhesive turf for this job or the contact cement?

Keep your stock head and get the pipe.

Are you suggesting I stay where I'm at compression wise? A big motivator to a new head was the ability to check the flame front pattern on the pistons. Another option would be to get a borescope, although I'm not sure I'd be able to see the pattern very well, and they aren't exactly inexpensive. Other than that, the stock head is fine IMO. I would like to bump up the compression a bit more for our elevation, but I think I'd need the squish band machined. I took the lip off when I machined the head before. Oh, I'd also need a new headgasket next time I take it apart (also not cheap!).

Anyway, I take your comment as saying that a pipe will have a larger impact on performance than a head. Did I interpret that correctly?

Get a wetpipe for your next mod.
One thing to note about a girdled head. If you go Kommander, you will have to machine your cylinders. TBM and ADA you do not.

Thanks! I hadn't thought about machining the cylinders for the Kommander head. So, TBM or ADA? When do girdles become important?

i would have zero lighten your stock fly , and recut your stock head so you know what you got, bpipe....you wont notice a difference between a tbm fly and a zero cut one except in your wallet and the bpipe you can buy instead

I've seen a lot of mention of this, and am willing to give it a try. It should be much cheaper, which puts me much closer to getting a pipe. Maybe I should seriously consider going this way this time. I'll message Zero about it.

So, anyone know what it takes to remove/reinstall the flywheel? I know there is a special tool offered. I have a harmonic balancer puller/installer for a car with a bunch of adapter threaded fittings. I also have several various pullers for auto work. No sense in messing something up with the wrong tool, but if I already have an appropriate tool, no sense in spending money on just another specialty piece.

Also, a lot of you are mentioning waterboxes. Is there a mod for the stock one, or is a new one in order? Why? What should I expect out of a new one (besides it being louder)? Seems that since the engine will be out already, it's be a good time to do that swap.

Thanks again for all the input! Looking forward to digging in and getting to work.

 

[clouse22]

Do not get the 3M backed turf....go to home depot or somewhere that sells DAP Weldwood (Make sure it is the red can). Apply it to both the turf and the hull. I normally use two coats on both, letting it fully air dry both times (approx 15 min per coat). Then invest in a heat gun so that you can stretch the turf to apply to all curves on the hull. The sxr is a tough ski to turf, especially the rails. When I was done turfing mine, i went cut all edges on a 45 degree angle and applied a good superglue and then a bead of silicone. May have been overkill, but I never had any peel ups so it was worth it to me.

Good luck with the build and remember to have enough money left so that you can actually ride the thing!

-Bobby

 

[Cannibal]

There is a guy who can modify your box, but charges $150 to do it. At that point, just get yourself an ATP or TDR and call it good. The waterboxes really won't give you any more power, just more noise, and a little less weight. I cut ALL of the excess glue out of my ski in the engine compartment and under the tray. I put it all in a box and weighed it. 11.33lbs of glue is pretty crazy.

 

[jlane330]

TBM domes are the most expensive domes so remember that.

I just realized that I wrote TBM head/domes, but was looking at the ADA head kit. You're absolutely right...they are the most expensive domes out there! Sorry about the mix up.

Do not get the 3M backed turf....go to home depot or somewhere that sells DAP Weldwood (Make sure it is the red can). Apply it to both the turf and the hull. I normally use two coats on both, letting it fully air dry both times (approx 15 min per coat). Then invest in a heat gun so that you can stretch the turf to apply to all curves on the hull. The sxr is a tough ski to turf, especially the rails. When I was done turfing mine, i went cut all edges on a 45 degree angle and applied a good superglue and then a bead of silicone. May have been overkill, but I never had any peel ups so it was worth it to me.

Good luck with the build and remember to have enough money left so that you can actually ride the thing!

-Bobby

Thanks for the feedback. I was leaning towards using contact cement as well, seems like it'd stick better than the 3M adhesive over surfaces that aren't super flat/smooth. Side question...would you choose contact cement or self adhesive for flat surfaces (also going to replace my 96 SDoo XP rubber pads with hydroturf, can't decide on adhesive. For any of the SXR though, DAP is it, thanks!

There is a guy who can modify your box, but charges $150 to do it. At that point, just get yourself an ATP or TDR and call it good. The waterboxes really won't give you any more power, just more noise, and a little less weight. I cut ALL of the excess glue out of my ski in the engine compartment and under the tray. I put it all in a box and weighed it. 11.33lbs of glue is pretty crazy.

I came across that info, and the cost seems high considering AM prices. I guess it all comes down to weight. Anyone know the weight savings of a TDR baffled versus stock? I suppose the smaller size also holds less water, so it's even lighter when riding?

Thanks for all the excellent feedback and help! I think my list has morphed slightly to this:

Upgrade plan:
TBM charging flywheel
X-metal handlepole
Turf over chinpad
Kommander steering system
Block off front intake hole
Remove stock rail caps and turf over (ripped stock rail cap currently)
Continue tuning effort

Would love to eventually:
Factory wet pipe + rejet

Undecided:
TDR baffled waterbox
Adjustable flow control valve (do I need adjustable?)
Head (mod stock versus TBM or ADA)

Fact is, I can do the head at any time, same with the pipe. No need to pull the engine for those mods. I'll probably do something to the compression before the pipe to help with the elevation issue. Only reason to pull the engine would be waterbox...not a big deal to pull if I ever go that route. My goals right now are more low end grunt and better ergo (shorter pole). Unlike a lot of you, I have to travel 2 1/2 hours to be on water. This means I get out a few weekends a year for a few days each (not much riding). I realize it may seem insane...spending a bunch of money on stuff that doesn't get used much...but I look at it in another way. Since I don't get to do it much, I should make it as good as possible to enjoy for that limited period of time, within reason. The stockish ski has been fun for the last two years, just finding that I want more!

 

[ChrisFiore15]

dude the pipe will give you MUCHH better increases of preformance over the TBM Flywheel for SURE.
and the TBM FW is like the same price as a MINT used Factory PIpe...
Go with the pipe man.

Throw a number out as to what your budget is, then people can make a solid write up...
all people apparently have different views of a small budget..
post a number, il give you alist of your best options.

 

[jlane330]

dude the pipe will give you MUCHH better increases of preformance over the TBM Flywheel for SURE.
and the TBM FW is like the same price as a MINT used Factory PIpe...
Go with the pipe man.

Throw a number out as to what your budget is, then people can make a solid write up...
all people apparently have different views of a small budget..
post a number, il give you alist of your best options.

I keep going back and forth on pipe versus flywheel. Read a lot about how heavy the stock SXR flywheel is, and that a light one is #2 upgrade after pipe for the SXR. I can easily swap out the FW while the motor's out (not yet, but is coming out soon, probably in a month). The pipe can come in a few months, and possibly even before first ride this year (hoping to get out starting in May, so a few months out still). If not, maybe mid-summer time frame.

Budget...well, this started with a handlepole upgrade, and my running wishlist...haha. Don't really have a budget. I could spend $500 or $3000. Like anyone, I'd much prefer to spend less, and if spending more...will space out the purchases (i.e. $800 wetpipe). I was hoping to be around $1K initially, then maybe $1K in the summer. My list doesn't reflect that budget though. As it is now, looking at ~$1700 initially, then $1K in a few months. That would probably round out upgrades to this ski for a long time. Can't imagine doing much else for a year or two (thinking maybe a lightweight hull later).

So, budget? Heck...let's ask what you would do with $2500? Thanks!

EDIT: For discussion purposes, let's assume $1K goes towards handlepole, steering, turf. What would you do to the engine/drivetrain with the remaining $1500?

EDIT#2: I do plan on doing a wetpipe and flywheel, guess it's just a timing/what to do first sort of thing. Head is still very undecided (mill stock versus aftermarket). I think I can mill the stock + pipe + TBM FW for the above budget.

 

[clouse22]

Learning from my experiences, get the pipe now so you dont have to tear apart your ski in the middle of the season. I made this mistake last summer, rushed the pipe install and lost riding days. I dont know about you, but my season is short. Make sure you maximize your riding time. Just my .02

For the turf, i would use dap weldwood everywhere.

 

[jlane330]

Learning from my experiences, get the pipe now so you dont have to tear apart your ski in the middle of the season. I made this mistake last summer, rushed the pipe install and lost riding days. I dont know about you, but my season is short. Make sure you maximize your riding time. Just my .02

For the turf, i would use dap weldwood everywhere.

Curious...why do you have to tear apart the ski for a pipe install? Are you referring to pulling the carbs for rejetting? I suppose that since the carbs are coming off for grinding the intake anyways, that's good reason to do the pipe first. Not sure what's harder to pull with the engine in the hull...carbs or flywheel. It looks like carbs would be cake, but perhaps the FW is too. Maybe I'm over thinking pulling the engine. The SD XP took some work to pull the engine/reinstall.


Awe heck, minus well just do both FW and pipe at the same time. Other than initial hit to the wallet (versus spread out), seems like there isn't a reason NOT to. Both seem straightforward to install. It'll probably take me longer to turf everything than get all this installed. While our hot season is longer, due to logistics, my opportunity to ride is fairly short too. That's why I started looking into this stuff now, versus May like last year (dumb!)...

 

[clouse22]

you dont really have to tear the ski apart for the pipe install, i was just stating that in my opinion, it sucks to be wrenching during the riding season. However, i did pull my engine when i installed my pipe. I just hate leaning over into my ski, and it seems like I always drop a washer or something stupid down to the bottom and waste time trying to find it. Plus, pulling the SXR engine takes maybe 10 min max and it allows to you make sure everything is buttoned up correctly.

 

[jlane330]

you dont really have to tear the ski apart for the pipe install, i was just stating that in my opinion, it sucks to be wrenching during the riding season. However, i did pull my engine when i installed my pipe. I just hate leaning over into my ski, and it seems like I always drop a washer or something stupid down to the bottom and waste time trying to find it. Plus, pulling the SXR engine takes maybe 10 min max and it allows to you make sure everything is buttoned up correctly.

Yes, agree! Thanks for the info/feedback!

 

[Texan33]

you dont really have to tear the ski apart for the pipe install, i was just stating that in my opinion, it sucks to be wrenching during the riding season. However, i did pull my engine when i installed my pipe. I just hate leaning over into my ski, and it seems like I always drop a washer or something stupid down to the bottom and waste time trying to find it. Plus, pulling the SXR engine takes maybe 10 min max and it allows to you make sure everything is buttoned up correctly.

I agree with him^ I have took the motor completely out of the hull and it only took me about 15 minutes MAX. The motor itself weight about 60-75 pounds and it was not a problem.


Plus, I don't know if I am going to be helpful on this one. I installed both TBM flywheel and Wet Pipe in my SXR over the winter, I have not tried them out yet. I have heard a lot of people saying that getting a factory pipe is the "best bang for buck" mod and a few even said A/M flywheel is the "best bang for buck" mod too. I just decided to get both. If you only want to get one of either, I would go with the factory pipe.