Super Jet Abnormal Starter Draw?

ArtMaybee

I'm Baaaack!
Location
Mobile, AL
Its relatively easy to give your starter a checkup/tuneup.

Mark the starter where the starter body and end caps meet. A line drawn with a paint pen works nicely. Draw a line from body to end caps on both ends. Hope that's easy enough to understand. It helps with indexing everything when reassembling. If you will be bead blasing and painting or whichever way you want to refinish, then use a scribe to make your lines.

Remove the two bolts holding the starter together. You may need to use a penatrating spray of some sort. Do NOT use too much force on these since breaking them sucks. If WD-40 or whatever doesn't do the trick here is one you might not know. Heat the bolt near the threads with a propane torch and while its hot rub bees wax on the bolt. As it cools, the wax is sucked into the threads and many times frees it up. That's an old machinists trick.

Pull the end caps off the starter. Take note of any washers/shims on the shaft of the armature.Remember their location and order so they can be replaced in the same way. Remove the armature (big thing in the middle).It will slide right out from the gear side. Give everything a once over, checking the amount of brush wear, faulty connections on brush leads, etc.

If the starter had side-to-side play in the shaft (armature), it probably needs a bearing and/or a bushing replacement. With the starter apart use fine wet dry paper or emory cloth and lube with WD40 to clean the commutator contacts until no traces of corrosion and/or discoloration remain and it's smooth.Try not so sand more than you absolutely need to get it clean. You don't want to create flat spots so be somewhat gentle.

If there is severe brush wear, there will be lots of dust in the brush cap (back cover). If you see a lot of dust you may need new brushes. As the brushes wear, the springs apply reduced pressure on the brushes. This can cause starter failure. If you don't have replacements, you could try bending the springs to increase pressure slightly. This is a temp fix and you will need to get a brush kit at some point (though it could last a long time this way). Since many kits contain the entire brush plate with springs, there is no worry about the modified springs as they should be replaced when you replace the brushes.

I hit the brushes lightly with wet dry paper to remove any build up and also knock the sharp edges down just a little (But not on new brushes). It just helps keep the brushes from catching on the commutator until they bed in.

After leads are checked and contacts cleaned I spray everything down with carb cleaner and dry with compressed air. If the solder connection between the brush and brush plate isn't solid, you can resolder the connection. If the lead is in bad shape otherwise, then the brushes should be replaced.

To make reinstalling the armature easier, the brush springs should be pulled out of the brush holders with needle nose pliars. Then load the brushes in their holders. Slide the armature into the main starter body and carefully past the brushes. Once the armature is in place, user the needle nose pliars to put the spring ends back into the brush holders. This puts spring tension on the brushes and presses them firmly against the commutator (copper contacts on the armature).

I use a blue waterproof grease from a boat store. It is very sticky and works great for most things on a ski. I think its mercury Outboard brand. I put a dab of this into the bushing hole on the brush end cap. And apply a good amount on the shaft on the gear side. I then slide the gear side cap on and turn a little bit. Remove and repeat. I do this several times until the bearing and seal are well loaded. I've tried putting the grease in the bearing directly but this seems to work better for me.

The seals that go beteen caps and starter body I rub the same grease into to give them a nice coating.

Make sure that any shims/washers that were on the shaft go back where they came from. Line the caps up with the index marks you made in the beginning. Don't forget the seals go back on before the caps. They swell with age so unless you get new ones it can be an effort to get them seated correctly. Put the bolts back in and test.

If you had bad bearing, bushing, brushes, seals... you can get this stuff. If anyone wants I can share some links to sources for them.

This took longer to type than to do it. Maybe I'll try to take pics of the process and to a proper write-up if anyone is interested.
 
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ArtMaybee

I'm Baaaack!
Location
Mobile, AL
Id have to agree that soldered would be better for a person only making a few cables. My experience with this comes from what I've seen at work. There are some lugs spec'd for soldered lugs and others with certified crimped lugs. The soldered are used mostly in low strain and vibration applications. The soldered lugs in less than ideal applications seem to have a much higher failure rate. Maybe its not a concern in skis.

I need to ask though. The experiences with crimped lugs.... what sort of crimp was it? The crimps I'm talking about are 360* crimps. The crimpers run around $300+ so are prohibitive for most. With this solution id still use tinned lugs partly because the end is sealed better. With the sealed shrink wrap no water would get into the conductor.

Would I solder before using a hammer style lug crimper? Any day! If I couldn't use a proper crimper solder would be my next preference. I guess the biggest problem is how many things "crimping" can actually mean. The crimps I mention are OEM quality, and milspec rated.
 

ArtMaybee

I'm Baaaack!
Location
Mobile, AL
I forgot to mention that you should clean the gaps between the commutator contacts with something like a toothpick to make sure debris isn't shorting them together. If the commutator contacts are badly burned from over-worn brushes (low spring tension) you can chuck the armature in a drill press and use a long strip of emory cloth about 400 grit and WD40 to clean/resurface the commutator. Doing it this way will keep it round without flat spots. Its not an issue with lighter cleanup jobs though. Just don't take off more material than absolutely required.

I'll post steps for testing the commutator with a multi-meter later. It'll probably be easier to explain with a few pictures. This way you can be 100% sure the starter is good before you even reassemble it. Or buy brushes etc.
 

JetManiac

Stoked
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Location
orlando
Corrosion will move up a battery cable from the connectors. Making sure the ends are sealed is important. If you can see the conductor in a wire and it has a dark brownish look to it, resistance is going to be higher and the cables willl get hot. They can get hot enough to melt the conductor or catch fire. The more corroded, the more resistance they have and the hotter they get. As they get hotter resistance increases even more.

If you experience a hot battery cable it will almost always be hot due to resistance in the wire and should always be the first thing to check. When troubleshooting amp draws follow the heat. The hot spot is most likely the problem.

Everything I've seen that jss sells has been top-notch but I question the soldered battery cable lugs. There are good reasons why OEM cables aren't soldered. When soldered, the solder can wick up into the conductor. This doesn't sound like a problem at first thought but can be. The solder makes the cable ends lose their flexibility so the conductor can break if subjected to enough force or vibration. Sure, the lug could break too but at least you know when a lug breaks. But those will flex some before breaking. If the conductor startst to break under the insulator.. then you will have a problem that's harder to find.

Is it soldered because the proper lug crimper is on the terribly expensive side? A cable lug crimped with the proper crimper and dies is not improved by adding solder.then if sealed with the sealant type heat shrink the connection is water tight.

I just wouldn't want to sell battery leads that use soldered lugs.

OEM yamaha cables are soldered?
 

ArtMaybee

I'm Baaaack!
Location
Mobile, AL
All I've looked at have the tinned lugs and a proper crimp. Never seen any that are soldered. A proper crimp could almost be mistaken for a soldered connection.

An oem style crimp crimps around 360 degrees of the lug compressing it with very high pressure almost fusing the lug to the wire. The crimpers I'm talking about many times look like bolt cutters and are sometimes as large.

Crimping after soldering really doesn't work and the crimps are so tight that soldering after crimping is mostly pointless. The solder can't really get into the connection. It might wick into the conductor making it stiff and a bit brittle.

Oem connectors definitely have been crimped. Usually with lugs, its one or the other.
 

ArtMaybee

I'm Baaaack!
Location
Mobile, AL
I discussed the solder vs crimping cable lugs with several of the engineers at work. Not a single one thought solder was better for my (our) application.

I really was hoping they would say solder was as good or better than crimping. So now when I need a cable I have to call a guy from work that will use his personal set of $300 crimpers to make it. At least until I can get my own set. Soldering would be so much simpler and cheaper.
 
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