ATP Total Loss TS2

[masterblaster]

they posted above that the issue happened with the old thicker FW as well. without knowing a solid fix for why alot are doing this,I cant justify swaping from my msd dig TL in a dry box. Id like to go with the smaller ebox and have more room for pipe and battery fitment.But the only real advantage of the flame would be a more custom curve for larger pipes. So many of the top level skis use msd tl for a reason

 

[Bobert540]

Doesn't Lee Stone run TS2??

 

[Pablo]

From what I understand the new flash fixes the difficulty starting and the bendix carnage. Requires changing the preset advance from 50* to 40*. I have seen the new ultra-light FW separate from the ring gear, but that happened on my MSD TL too.

My gen 1 flame has been bullet proof.

 

[masterblaster]

Lee's main sponsor is atp so I'd hope he would run it. Some one mentioned the machining on the ring gear on the ultra lightweight fw was a problem as well not allowing the bendix to release smoothly ?

 

[tntsuperjet]

You have a completely programable timing curve with a start retard, if you don't setup the curve properly it will kill starters and bendix.
The msd is widely used because it's a known part and you don't need laptop to program it.
Just move switches around.
But I have used msd for yrs because it was a easy bolt on but I have also known I am giving up a lot of potential by using it.
Keep in mind if you change timing curve you change pipe temp, you change pipe temp you change pipe pressure, when you change pipe pressure you change jetting.
So an adjustment with one requires the adjustment of all the others.
I wouldn't ever consider even attempting to install a msd on one of my big sled motors not enough adjustability or ability to make big timing step to accommodate power valves opening or closing.
My problem is no watercraft ignition has provisions for power valve position.

 

[masterblaster]

I wouldnt call the msd tl a easy bolt on at all,Its 3x the pita a flame is to install especially in a dry box.alot are sent out preprogrammed for a given motor setup anyway... Are you saying a rounder curve has that much effect on pipe temp?Suppose that may be true for a drypipe but Wouldnt you be able to control pipe temp/pressure in a wet pipe more effectively with water adjustments than messing with timing and jetting?
Id like to hear from the guys in the other thread with all the chewed up starters,bendix and flywheels on what curves they were running if this is a possible cause.The start retard not functioning right would seem to be a possible issue? thats what wrecked all those same parts in epic igns that went bad

One thing I can say for the msd tl is that it just works till it doesnt anymore,it doesnt screw up all the other surrounding parts right before it stops working at all. to include starters,bendix,flywheel,wristpin bearings,waterbox,reeds,and who knows what else.

 

[masterblaster]

lol ok? Tell that to the guys with all the busted parts that posted in the other linked thread with no answers...thats the only thing pitiful. how bout a solution instead?

 

[tntsuperjet]

From what I see they changed the start retard program to fix the starting issue.

 

[Waveblaster785]

Torr, you should take up politics dude, that's how pitiful you're beginning to sound.

To be totally clear, there is a reflash for the TS2? How have you gone about communicating the issue? Were customers who had this ignition with the incorrect flash, notified? My understanding is that this issue causes the timing to be off by 10degrees, or roughly 30-50% in a typical curve, is that correct?

What are you offering for people who bought their ignitions preprogrammed and don't have the cable or software to change the programming?

Thanks for your help.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MDStandUp]

To be totally clear, there is a reflash for the TS2? How have you gone about communicating the issue? Were customers who had this ignition with the incorrect flash, notified? My understanding is that this issue causes the timing to be off by 10degrees, or roughly 30-50% in a typical curve, is that correct?

What are you offering for people who bought their ignitions preprogrammed and don't have the cable or software to change the programming?

Thanks for your help.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great question. I actually sent them a email just yesterday about this. I never received any communication regarding the problem and I'm out hundreds in parts not to mention the down time from not riding. Add to that I need it all fixed.
More to come...

 

[Jetfiend]

I've never heard of "over fueling and bad tuning" being the cause of a blown up starter bendix, stator plate, flywheel and surrounding components. I'm sticking with my MSD for now, it will run good right up until it doesn't. The "lessor of two evils" rule stinks when you're spending $1400 I wish there were more choices available.

 

[2XLR8]

I would think the number of units out there are many yet the numbers of failures are low.

I remember the first gen msd that did not have start retard and you had to add 5 degrees to the static to compensate for sensor correction . This means some people were running 37 degrees of timing during startup. I also saw many problems with the advent going full advance when the battery voltage dropped during cranking. In both of these ignitions there was severe kickback and I don't recall breaking of bendiixes and flywheel ring gears.

The way I see it, the bendix and the starter gear both should be able to take all the starter can put out. If ignition and combustion occurs the starter is no match for the cylinder pressure, my guess is it has no choice but to spin backwards for a split second. The weak link is the starter gear to bendix point. I have seen limited boats with enhancer break a tooth and lock up .

 

[masterblaster]

2xlr8. The political answer to that is the number of units out there is way lower than msd. But the failures are much higher you just don't hear about them all cause ATP is a big supporter of the jetski industry and makes a lot of veryyyy cool parts but when it comes to ign products u are talking about something far more complex than making a piece of colored billet

 

[Pablo]

My ATP electronics (epic's twice and flame ) have all worked flawlessly and had good customer support even when I didn't buy it new and had questions. Zero complaints.

 

[Quinc]

2xlr8. The political answer to that is the number of units out there is way lower than msd. But the failures are much higher you just don't hear about them all cause ATP is a big supporter of the jetski industry and makes a lot of veryyyy cool parts but when it comes to ign products u are talking about something far more complex than making a piece of colored billet

I don't think I have seen a thread where you are not blasting a product or hull etc. You should post a thread with the perfect setup so the rest of us can save time.

 

[badvinny]

2xlr8. The political answer to that is the number of units out there is way lower than msd. But the failures are much higher you just don't hear about them all cause ATP is a big supporter of the jetski industry and makes a lot of veryyyy cool parts but when it comes to ign products u are talking about something far more complex than making a piece of colored billet

We replace pickups and brains in race MSD,s every year, their reliability is worse IMO, I just replace them because msd gives us no warranty, you don't here much about it because we don't come crying on a forum everytime it happens.

 

[masterblaster]

I dont consider it crying if someone is looking for a answer to a problem with a viable solution. 95% of my ski im completely happy with it,love it. But my experience with a epic and advent where terrible,as most others where as well. So we should just let everybody else suffer and find out for them-self and possibly give up on their ski that doesnt already know any better.
Vinny..surprised to hear you have msd brains going bad every yr? I have 2 that are old as the hills still workin fine as well as many other friends. one of the dual coils went bad once,but it didnt cause backfires and pre ign to take out my fw,starter,bendix and wrist pin bearings. thats a plus right? Id run a flame ign if I knew it would never cause a issue like whats talked about here. Fantastic concept,terrible QC imho

 

[tntsuperjet]

Well I say if you crank your boat and hear it kicking back or trying to and not turning over easy your own dam fault if you blow up bendix and flywheel.
Retard the timing some on stator till it turns over good and advance it back up in the program.
It's that simple.
Back in 90's people where doing same with mad until tey fixed there box but I never had a problem just 1-3 deg of retard on sator and proble usually salved.
You can't blame a product for uneducated tuners messing up there stuff because they have to much static timing and not smart enough to fix it before they tear there stuff up.
There lucky the curve is so well designed or they would have bought cyl and pistons!!!
Bottom line is if your not smart enough to stop hitting a start button when the motor won't turn over free, then you deserve to pay for the parts!!

 

[masterblaster]

you do realize they turn over fine until they dont and all it takes is one hard kickback backfire that happens very quickly and its too late. It sounds like the flash is 10 deg,so you would suggest retard the stator 10 deg to solve issue? time will tell if the flash is the permanent fix,it would be great if turns out to be the case

 

[2XLR8]

10 degrees was not enough on the advents.