B-pipe advice

[waxhead]

I have no idea. Fill me in if you so please.

Mark Baxter was one of the pipe designers, dyno operators for Factory Pipe. He was the guy who made the first lay down pipe for the Yamaha engine using the factory pipe dyno ( Power factor), He was also the guy who made the matrix pipes for the Polaris in conjunction with factory pipe.

So just some more of my sisters, cousins, pervy uncle type of hearsay with no actual testing, evidence or the unheard of in the jetski world, a legit dyno run to back up what you type on the ol interwebs type of dyno proof.

I'll take your word for it. Thanks!

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Mark Baxter was directly involved with developing exhaust systems for the following projects: Kawasaki Triple Pipe STXR; Ultra 150 Triple Pipe; Yamaha 701 Type 9; SXR Dry Pipe; and SXR Wet Pipe. Polaris contracted Factory Pipe to develop the Octane 777 Engine and the Matrix 200 Concept Watercraft. Baxter was also busy dynoing and tuning engines.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-baxter-866b1b84/

 

[Pro-pulsion]

Hey Wax, didn't Darren Hedlund design the Speedwerx dry pipe in the 90's and the original lay down pipe in the Kawi 650sx back in the 80's? Wasn't he the originator of the lay down pipe or did Factory have it before him?

 

[Big Kahuna]

Hey Wax, didn't Darren Hedlund design the Speedwerx dry pipe in the 90's and the original lay down pipe in the Kawi 650sx back in the 80's? Wasn't he the originator of the lay down pipe or did Factory have it before him?

Yes on the speedwerx dry pipes. These were similar production versions of the pipes he made for KHI and others... never saw a lay down pipe for a 650.

 

[Pro-pulsion]

You're correct BK, my wording was wrong. I'm lumping the 650 sx pipe in with lay down pipes because I assumed all pipes that are low in the hull are lay down pipes. I should have been more specific, the low mounting pipe design found in the 650 sx, I for some reason recall reading that Darren started that design, then Factory followed with the B-pipe along with Westcoast, Kerker, Mariner, and Coffman on similar designs just modified variables.

 

[Big Kahuna]

I wish I had the resources to do so.

It's really too bad Yamaha went anti 2-stroke several years back. They could have if they wanted brought a high horsepower, lightweight, modern 2-stroke that is clean burning and could be made to clear epa regs to the game. The technology is there they just suddenly felt the need to completely abandon all 2 strokes.

Shows your knowledge. Yamaha could not make any changes to the 701/760 power plants since around 2006-2008. They were allowed to keep producing them under a grandfather clause based on credits they earned for cleaner engines from other watercraft and offroad vehicles. This is why the 701 that came in the SJ from 2008 until 2020 was the exact same. In regards to earlier post about Dyno numbers. These are easy numbers to achieve on Motorcycles, 4 wheelers, side by sides and snowmobiles. They can pull a dyno up any race site, trade shoe and you can throw your bike up on it. With ski's you cannot do the same. The best machines require the motor to be removed. At worst it's a water brake that attaches to part of the pump that measures thrust then you do the math along with the RPM's to determine HP. This is just a tuning tool at this point. Watercraft propulsion is the most inefficient form of propulsion out there. Where you can create huge noticeable gains for little cost on a dirt bike, to achieve same gains on the water can be extremely expensive. And the only true test is seat of the them pants testing. You get out and ride. Test, turn screws on pipe or carbs. Change jets. Swap props, intake grates, change water restriction. All to gain 5 mph or 5 extra feet in the air for freestyle....

 

[Big Kahuna]

You're correct BK, my wording was wrong. I'm lumping the 650 sx pipe in with lay down pipes because I assumed all pipes that are low in the hull are lay down pipes. I should have been more specific, the low mounting pipe design found in the 650 sx, I for some reason recall reading that Darren started that design, then Factory followed with the B-pipe along with Westcoast, Kerker, Mariner, and Coffman on similar designs just modified variables.

Westcoast, Kerker, Coffman, PJS, Mariner, all had pipes out of this design (manifold,, headpipe to chamber)well before Factory Pipe did.

 

[Snowmobiler]

Shows your knowledge. Yamaha could not make any changes to the 701/760 power plants since around 2006-2008. They were allowed to keep producing them under a grandfather clause based on credits they earned for cleaner engines from other watercraft and offroad vehicles. This is why the 701 that came in the SJ from 2008 until 2020 was the exact same. In regards to earlier post about Dyno numbers. These are easy numbers to achieve on Motorcycles, 4 wheelers, side by sides and snowmobiles. They can pull a dyno up any race site, trade shoe and you can throw your bike up on it. With ski's you cannot do the same. The best machines require the motor to be removed. At worst it's a water brake that attaches to part of the pump that measures thrust then you do the math along with the RPM's to determine HP. This is just a tuning tool at this point. Watercraft propulsion is the most inefficient form of propulsion out there. Where you can create huge noticeable gains for little cost on a dirt bike, to achieve same gains on the water can be extremely expensive. And the only true test is seat of the them pants testing. You get out and ride. Test, turn screws on pipe or carbs. Change jets. Swap props, intake grates, change water restriction. All to gain 5 mph or 5 extra feet in the air for freestyle....

Shows your knowledge!

If they wanted to produce a 2 stroke that meets regs, they could have. Look at Polaris, Brp, Textron/arctic cat!

All producing high tech, modern, clean burning 2 strokes with 800/850cc producing 150ish H.P.

poop, Polaris and Brp now have 2 stroke turbos 850cc producing 170+ H.p. And would ya just look at that! They pass EPA Mandates. Golly Gee who woulda thunk!

If Yamaha wanted and was willing to make the investment, they could be right there with them. Instead they cheaped out and went the whale route like Kawasaki.


And you can most certainly get real crank h.p. numbers from any engine, pipe, tuning combo out there. It may not always translate to wheel, prop, track, etc. performance but often times it will.

Also when I mentioned dyno #'s I was more referring to the aftermarket performance products and the gains achieved. All we get is some lame little minimal information graph. Show us all the numbers and inputs to verify your graph isn't input manipulated. But honestly none of that matters, the Factory B-pipe is permanently embedded into the brainwashed minds making it the holy grail! For poops sake have you seen the prices the opportunistic are asking lately. Lol! No competition = no innovation or progress in design and performance.



Open your eyes up beyond your 1991 tech and you'll realize you're running engines with tech from the stone age.

But got damn that solid piece of aluminum anchor looks nice and it feels damn good when I tell my homies 'Billet baby, Billet!'

 

[Big Kahuna]

Shows your knowledge!

If they wanted to produce a 2 stroke that meets regs, they could have. Look at Polaris, Brp, Textron/arctic cat!

All producing high tech, modern, clean burning 2 strokes with 800/850cc producing 150ish H.P.

poop, Polaris and Brp now have 2 stroke turbos 850cc producing 170+ H.p. And would ya just look at that! They pass EPA Mandates. Golly Gee who woulda thunk!

If Yamaha wanted and was willing to make the investment, they could be right there with them. Instead they cheaped out and went the whale route like Kawasaki.


And you can most certainly get real crank h.p. numbers from any engine, pipe, tuning combo out there. It may not always translate to wheel, prop, track, etc. performance but often times it will.

Also when I mentioned dyno #'s I was more referring to the aftermarket performance products and the gains achieved. All we get is some lame little minimal information graph. Show us all the numbers and inputs to verify your graph isn't input manipulated. But honestly none of that matters, the Factory B-pipe is permanently embedded into the brainwashed minds making it the holy grail! For poops sake have you seen the prices the opportunistic are asking lately. Lol! No competition = no innovation or progress in design and performance.



Open your eyes up beyond your 1991 tech and you'll realize you're running engines with tech from the stone age.

But got damn that solid piece of aluminum anchor looks nice and it feels damn good when I tell my homies 'Billet baby, Billet!'

None of them are making 2 stroke watercraft................ So not seeing your point.

 

[Snowmobiler]

None of them are making 2 stroke watercraft................ So not seeing your point.

The point is that it could be done if Yamaha wanted to. Unfortunately they didn't.

And I understand those 3 do not make watercrafts. The point was that making 2 strokes in today's EPA wackness is possible.

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[Snowmobiler]

Uhmmm...here's an "Advanced Technloogy" Product developed by a Snowmobiler for a Yamaha SuperJet.

EFI Yamaha 701 SuperJet 62T Electronic Fuel Injection and Ignition Kit

Yamaha 701 SuperJet 62T Electronic Fuel Injection and Ignition Kit We have developed a bolt on Fuel Injection and ignition setup for the Yamaha 62T base engines, this setup comes as a complete bolt on setup with base maps ready to run. Setup gives the end user fine tuning adjustments to the...

x-h2o.com

Very cool and advanced, too bad it didn't work.

Jetski Two Strokes are very hard to improve with no Clutch like a Snowmobile or a Transmission like a Motorcycle.

A harsh Marine Environment, Weight Sensitivity, Limited Space, Pump Inefficiency and EXPONENTIAL DRAG make for a Big Challenge that has humbled MANY HOTSHOTS coming from other 2 Stroke Power Sports.

Last Guy that talked like You was a National Go Kart Champion, and He didn't get too far. Mostly stuck in the middle of a Lake with seized Engines.

I'm not surprised that what I assume was smaller operations were unsuccessful.

It takes a big backing from a major manufacturer to get past the hurdles presented. Which costs big money. I'm sure the investment needed was the reason yamaha stopped pursuing 2-stroke tech. Instead they are able to whore out existing platforms across multiple lines.

That link you provided, I believe those are the Silber Turbo guys? Or possibly just affiliated? I'm not positive but I have a strong suspicion. Silber is a aftermarket turbo shop for sleds.

I'm not entirely surprised what they attempted didn't pan out. They have a hard enough time just modifying the programming on sleds to have a trouble free experience when installing and using their turbos.

But in the sled world aftermarket turbo guys are soon going to be a thing of the past as 2 of the 3 manufacturers offer sleds with factory 2 stroke turbos off the showroom floor with multiple year warranties.

 

[kevbo]

Yamahas only job is to make one thing, MONEY!!! We buy whatever crap they put in front of us. Just like every other MFG.

 

[brapperdoodle]

 

[MarkWalker]

Bringing this thread back on track..... I'm going to use the FX1 pipe and I sold the Mod set up.....

 

[waxhead]

Bringing this thread back on track..... I'm going to use the FX1 pipe and I sold the Mod set up.....

Great choice

 

[jpswift1]

Bringing this thread back on track..... I'm going to use the FX1 pipe and I sold the Mod set up.....

Mark,

Looking forward to riding with you and the group this Summer and seeing how the FX1 pipe compares to the Mod setup. We'll have to compare notes and see how it goes. By the way, I'll have my fixed steer RN Superjet ready to rip......I'll have you give it a try and get your thoughts on it.