Bad EPIC CDI? guru's lend me you ears

[Spoony]

Hi,

I've read a few threads with various issues with EPIC CDI's and wondering if my issue could be related to the EPIC. The ski runs but in the water it's gutless as and sounds wrong/flat. Annoyingly I've just done a top end build and am now stuffing around trying to nut this issue instead of running the thing in properly . The last ride, end of day literally putting it on the trailer it felt crap but was lowish on fuel so I'd just figured it was that. Turns out it was more than low fuel.

So it starts easy, idles OK, revs OK out of the water (maybe not 100% as snappy as normal but always hard to tell on the trailer). However in the water it's gutless, dead down low, very very slow to get on the pipe, and when it does still gutless. It also sounds very flat. To me it sounds like the timing is way off, probably retarded.

I had a stock CDI die on me a year or two back and symptoms seemed near identical, expect it progressed to being worse than this. I replaced this CDI with the epic and came good.

Hence why I'm wondering if the EPIC's have issues that manifest like the above.

I've checked all the resistance of the coils up front, all within spec and outputting correct voltage. I tried closing up the spark plug gap (new plugs) in case of weak spark, but no luck. It doesn't so much as miss/breakdown, just moan along sounding flat and sad, hence I think spark is still OK. During rebuild I didn't even remove the carbs or change any settings.

I've pulled the ebox out and have noticed that the black wire that comes out of the EPIC and runs both to earth and with the pink cable to the 3.5 jack connector has broken from it's bullet connect and was not earthed. There are 2x black wires, the other still connected fine.

Given it seems there are 2x earth wires out of the EPIC I'd imagine it may not matter, but in anycase I thought someone on here might know before I reconnect and put back together, take down to the water and test.

Cheers.
Dan

 

[OCD Solutions]

I would swap in a good known CDI before I pointed a finger at the EPIC. Yes, they can, (and do), go bad but you've done a bunch of other things that could cause issues as well.

Any idea what curve is in the EPIC now? It ships with a flat curve for verifying timing that, if activated, could cause the symptoms your describing.

 

[Spoony]

Quick reply, cheers .

I'd have to source/buy another CDI to test.

Good question, I bought it second hand but unused. I didn't realize that they shipped with such a curve. I don't know what curve was in it, my understanding was came with a mild/safe curve and that's what I've been running.

Edit: I don't have the cable, which would be really handy now to check what you've mentioned. Can the the unit somehow reset or something and this 'flat' curve become active? (ie say memory gets wiped due to that wire disconnecting while running or something?)

If that flat curve can really make the ski feel and sound dead as, then the idea it's this has merit.

 

[OCD Solutions]

All it takes to revert to the second curve is to ground out one wire. I'll dig up the schematic and update with the correct wire.

Since you just finished a top end build, I always say, start with looking at the last thing you touched. A lot of little things can go wrong anytime you do even the smallest of jobs. Air leak, carbs not hooked up, broken wires, cracked fuel filter or fuel line allowing air into the system, etc. For instance, I swapped my driveline over to a new hull last year and my engine started breaking up on the first ride out. I had done a flash to my epic while I had it all apart so I blamed that at first. Turns out I had pulled too hard on my coil ends when i was yanking the motor and had broken the plug terminals off the ignition wires.

 

[Spoony]

Interesting, does sound plausible then. Last ride prior to rebuild the battery terminal came loose and disconnected, it still kept running but then wouldn't restart. So that and the found disconnected EPIC earth in the ebox does leave the possibility that electrical disturbance could have reset/reverted it.
That's be handy, thanks , I'll dig out the box/instructions but I don't recall a schematic in it.

Really need a cable and software I guess. At least then once sorted can make use of the EPIC properly, ski has R&D Dry pipe, twin Black Jacks, Riva + 35cc's (amazingly not cracked lol), some porting, Hooker prop etc so maybe could get some noticeable gains with a suitable curve?

I hear you on all that! Did go fueling side of things lots on the bank yesterday (my bright red neck keeps reminding me of this haha). Couldn't test the electrics till home, but leads, coil, exciter coil, pulser all test fine. I did consider a flywheel timing issue but anytime I've had that (only ever in Kwaka's years ago) I've had backfires.

 

[Little_Franny]

I have also been chasing a epic issue, runs poor with epic, tried multiple curves, tried jetting changes, swap back to known good cdi and jet setting and all was fine, until yesterday. Went out and ran piss poor with known good cdi, sprayed down plug wires with wd40 and ran great. I ride salt water and I'm guessing my wires are trashed and that the added spark voltage from the epic was too much. I'll know in a couple days when I swap in new coil and go back to the epic

 

[ddgalliano]

hi epic instructions

 

[shawn_NJ]

Did you try swapping the coil with a known good one? Bad coil/wires will mess the epic up and make the ski run like crap with even the stock CDI.

 

[badvinny]

Interesting, does sound plausible then. Last ride prior to rebuild the battery terminal came loose and disconnected, it still kept running but then wouldn't restart. So that and the found disconnected EPIC earth in the ebox does leave the possibility that electrical disturbance could have reset/reverted it.
That's be handy, thanks , I'll dig out the box/instructions but I don't recall a schematic in it.

Really need a cable and software I guess. At least then once sorted can make use of the EPIC properly, ski has R&D Dry pipe, twin Black Jacks, Riva + 35cc's (amazingly not cracked lol), some porting, Hooker prop etc so maybe could get some noticeable gains with a suitable curve?

I hear you on all that! Did go fueling side of things lots on the bank yesterday (my bright red neck keeps reminding me of this haha). Couldn't test the electrics till home, but leads, coil, exciter coil, pulser all test fine. I did consider a flywheel timing issue but anytime I've had that (only ever in Kwaka's years ago) I've had backfires.

It doesn't reset/revert to a curve. The Epic has 2 curves A+B, you can install a 3 way switch to the wires and switch back and forth, but accidentally grounding will not make it revert to a curve.

 

[OCD Solutions]

Correct, it doesn't revert to a default curve, it switches to whatever the second curve is and sometimes, it's a flat curve for setting timing.

I still think it's something else and only suggested the curve as a quick item to check and cross off the list.

 

[waxhead]

Just beg burrow or buy another cdI to run. They are known for not running right.

 

[Spoony]

Cheers everyone. Yeah I read up on how the EPIC curves work, so doubt it's a different/flat curve as the pink wire that needs to bridged with a switch is still rubber sheathed in the Ebox. Mind you there was a rogue earth (stripped) loose in there also, chances of it connecting seem outrageous but that in effect would have done it.

Thanks ddgalliano, though mines the previous version not a HX3. I managed to dig out the instructions though.

Swapping stuff out really is the only true 'test' solution, just sucks not having bits to swap out. lol

Publicly begging now Wax . lol. I have read this, and the behavior seems near identical to when my old stock CDI started playing up.

Wax, do you still tune/setup ski's locally? Given the fresh build in mine, having and Epic + most other bits on it being aftermarket I was thinking I should get someone that knows their poop to set it up a bit better. It can go alright when working right but it is somewhat of a pig tuning/setup wise I think.

 

[waxhead]

Yes spoony I do tune skis. I may even have a stock cdi you can try. I will not tune a ski with an epic in it. They are just inconsistent and some times they go well and next thing they are backfiring and missing etc. I'm in upper coomera just by the boat ramp. Pm me for my number if you like

 

[Spoony]

Cheers, PM Sent.