Bad reviews - how do they impact the hobby

[Jcary85]

So recently i've become extraordinarily frustrated with this sport primarily because of how terrible every single company/seller/product/etc. is in this hobby. I've got a load of reviews (not good ones) for companies/people/products piling up that I haven't posted anywhere for two reasons: 1) Posting a bad review of a manufacturer/company might devalue my parts or other good people's parts. 2) I value my reputation in the hobby and don't want it hurt with a load of back-and-forth BS in a bad review thread.

I'm frustrated to the point that I might get out of the hobby, so it kinda makes those concerns less important. What are your thoughts on how negative reviews impact the hobby? If i post up factual review info of sellers/companies/products I feel it is honestly a gift to the hobby and stops others from getting hurt in the future. On the other hand, its kinda bad mojo and the kind of thing I hate about this hobby.

I guess I'm partially venting, so feel free to talk me off a ledge if you think I'm way off base.

 

[SXIPro]

I think honest reviews objectively reporting both sides of any scenario fully are fine.

 

[Citizen]

So recently i've become extraordinarily frustrated with this sport primarily because of how terrible every single company/seller/product/etc. is in this hobby. I've got a load of reviews (not good ones) for companies/people/products piling up that I haven't posted anywhere for two reasons: 1) Posting a bad review of a manufacturer/company might devalue my parts or other good people's parts. 2) I value my reputation in the hobby and don't want it hurt with a load of back-and-forth BS in a bad review thread.

I'm frustrated to the point that I might get out of the hobby, so it kinda makes those concerns less important. What are your thoughts on how negative reviews impact the hobby? If i post up factual review info of sellers/companies/products I feel it is honestly a gift to the hobby and stops others from getting hurt in the future. On the other hand, its kinda bad mojo and the kind of thing I hate about this hobby.

I guess I'm partially venting, so feel free to talk me off a ledge if you think I'm way off base.

I get it 100%. Personally I think its due to there not being a ton of money in the sport so people have real jobs and their side gig is jetski related which limits time and effort they put into it. There are some great companies/people out there tho, just gotta find them and stick with them.

 

[E350]

1. If the review pertains to a product, state the product by manufacturer and model name or number and how you used it. This educates us all with your review of the benefits/detriments of the product. Good or Bad -- it makes the knowledge pool deeper. If the product was described as "X" and it really is "X-" state what, how and why (even with pictures if possible and not to inconvenient to you).

Yes, mention the seller too but don't focus on the seller, it is your review of the product itself which provides value to us.

2. If the review pertains to the timeliness of the delivery including broken promises regarding delivery. Name the seller and just state the facts.

3. If the review pertains to a service state what service you requested and what service you got and why you believe it is superior/inferior. Mention the service provider by name and explain your efforts to resolve the problem and the outcome.

Joe Friday, "Just the facts ma'am."

 

[Quinc]

Everyone here has been burned at some point. Dabbling in multiple motor sports I see this across all of them and not just pwc. If you don't want to post negative you can post a thread about what you have learned and what to watch out for when buying?

I will start it off:
Always buy new carbs unless you personal know/trust the person you are buying used from.
Ebay:
44 mikuni is 150$
46 is 210$

Figure a used mikuni for 100 then add the 50$ for a rebuild kit. You are better off new..

 

[KMN]

I think we all get super frustrated with this sport at times. We all have limited time to ride, and when when things go wrong you have to just watch the summer fly by. It's why so many people buy backup skis and stock lots of parts. Jetmaniac is always shipping stuff 2 day to everyone all summer long.

It's a small sport, and everything is usually a long wait, things don't go as planned, always something to modify. At the end of the day posting about your poor experience never really ends up helping overall. It'll damage an image, piss somebody off after they put all this effort into something so you can enjoy it. It turns out all these guys making your parts become some of your good friends and they're all very enthusiastic about the sport, but working tirelessly and getting poor reviews burns them out.

On the flip side, I don't think we hear about all the great experiences we're having. So many people will help each other and get people back on the water, teach someone how to ride better, and just encourage new riders to ride.

 

[Harbor]

In certain limited situations I think a bad review is necessary. I appreciate knowing a person is bad seller or a company is up to no good. If it wasn’t for your guys posts I could have got caught up with Steve at trendsetters... but because of the reviews I steered clear of him and ordered another brand Hull.....thanks much!!!

That said, I expect things like a hull build to take way longer than iam told and I figure parts I’ll want will be on back order and there may be some mistakes on the order, once received. stuff Like that I take up with the company nicely, kinda goes with this sport...

It’s the F ing stupid poop that needs to get posted about...

 

[SmittySX]

Reviews greatly effect one person or companies in this industry. I regret posting some negative and even some positive for that reason. A negative review can ruin an up and coming business. 1 negative can also ruin 100 positive reviews. A legitimate negative review can also warn others about potential scammers. With reviews it’s all “he said she said” unless you were the buyer or seller.. Most issues between a buyer and seller don’t belong on a public forum IMO. Your asking for people that don’t know both sides of the story for an opinion which will generate wrongful opinions that eventually turn into lies. People aren’t perfect and people screw up. It’s then upto them to do what’s right and I’ve seen too many times where people take money and run. I too have been frustrated to the point where i wanted to leave the sport because of one bad thing happening after another which i know is happening to you right now @Jcary85. It’s the worst feeling in the world. This sport is extremely expensive if you do it right and even when you do it right, stuff doesn’t always run perfectly or hold up like you expected it to. That’s just the way it goes. I’ve got stories for days of spending insane amounts of money on skis or parts and them arriving with issues. It’s because poop happens. Ive never told those stories because nothing will ever happen. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn’t. Most of everyone is not out to get somebody or rip someone off. I guess I’m kind of venting too as I’ve been so frustrated with the same issue for a very long time.

The point I’m trying to make is everyone is in the sport for one reason. We love It. Treat others the way you expect to be treated and when it comes down to an issue, put yourself in their shoes and do what’s right. You can’t make everyone happy but if you are %100 truthful and transparent, your the one winning.

 

[Jcary85]

Everyone has made excellent points and I greatly appreciate the perspectives. I think, at the core, the problem is I tend to believe this sport is full of people who love it and care about the sport as much as I do and so I trust they will be as truthful and transparent as I am. Unfortunately, that’s just not the case a lot of the time.

I also fully understand how a bad review can very easily hurt a business. I’m a software engineer and did e-commerce and web marketing for many years, so I’m well versed. I would never hurt a business over something small but I also think we, as a group need to start standing up for ourselves. Every person I ride with has been screwed by lots of companies. Companies I’ve trusted and thought were great have screwed my friends. Sellers have been untruthful on at least 50% of transactions. It’s time for this crap to change.

Also, I have many many hobbies and none of the others have sellers and companies that are so terrible.

For what it’s worth, if I end up posting any feedback threads (I may not) they will, of course, just be fact based and I’ll leave judgements up to the readers.

 

[mthomps]

This whole sport is BS.

Its not about money its about time, ask the dudes who threw thousands at engines in AM hulls to be underwhelmed.

Everything's a secret and the answer is always talk to your engine builder even though they haven't answered you in months cause you bought the cylinder 2nd hand or the cases are different or the carbs.

So they either don't care or don't know.

Or the other end: you bought that 900c full comp but wanna move on and sell and the buyer blackmails you for rebuild parts

Yada yadda. This whole sport is like going to a party at a big house and no one will tell you where the toilet is as a right of passage or something.

 

[yamanube]

From my experience, MANY of the companies/people in the industry will talk more shlt about the people they sell parts to than the people that buy parts from them. It's a pretty toxic situation that is lose lose for anybody who is interested in sharing negative feedback, that's not to say it doesn't help someone in the future make a decision about where to spend their money (but it is discouraging as it rarely helps the person creating the negative feedback post).
The people that get the best customer support, are the people that spend the most money.

*edit @mthomps is pretty spot on with the whole "cool kids club" mentality of it all

 

[Christian_83]

Well ive been down the road several times, i think things need to get out in the light. Then the "opponent" can share their version if there is one (or and excuse).
What pisses me most of in this sport is:
Companies who short cut the avarage joe or people from over seas.
People who are selling parts that are far from desriction and try to blame the buyer have sone something wrong or dont understand the parts.

I know alot of people are saying that most companies in this industry is only just making enough money to keep the wheels rollin, but i dont think the profit is that low and i really think the companies need to treat their custommers equal and fair .
So for me bad experience:

Bought a new carbon hull, that had plenty of flaws (got compensated, so i didnt go public)
Bought a new carbon hull, got screwed by Steve Ortega trendsetterz - some of people here on forum told me i should take is easy and he was a good guy. 6months still no hull, manage to salvage 3500 usd out of totalt 5500 usd (lost 2000). I made a thread about it, then i think 4-5 people wrote PM to me, telling me they had the same situation, but was affraid to go public.

bought a second hand ignition from a well know company, then a few days later, the guy sold it to another guy and refunded my money.

a friend of mine bought a complete RTR new ski with a demo hull from a very well know US based company, recieved the ski, some parts that should be NEW and was paid for as new - was used.
The owner pointed fingers at a guy working in his shop (very well know rider). My friend never went public with that story.

So yeah, ALOT of snakes out there.

 

[kevbo]

Many parts are seldom good to buy used. Many sellers don't actually possess what they are selling. Plus many buyers have elevated expectations of quality and service. There is just not enough money in this for even the best providers to offer top shelf support after the sale. Others are just trying to turn their junk into groceries. Know this going into a transaction and adjust your expectations accordingly. Also, as a composites guy, beware of infused hulls! The tiniest mistake means void city and no builder is about to scrap a bad hull.

 

[mthomps]

Many parts are seldom good to buy used. Many sellers don't actually possess what they are selling. Plus many buyers have elevated expectations of quality and service. There is just not enough money in this for even the best providers to offer top shelf support after the sale. Others are just trying to turn their junk into groceries. Know this going into a transaction and adjust your expectations accordingly. Also, as a composites guy, beware of infused hulls! The tiniest mistake means void city and no builder is about to scrap a bad hull.

Dude that's crazy. I am not saying you are wrong. I think you have a good idea about what it actually is.

Money doesn't buy performance in jetskis it buys the right to tell someone else to look up what they couldn't find

 

[Big Kahuna]

Well. Negative Feedback here has been working pretty good for the most part. Before it was a damn free for all....... For the most part, only the 2 parties involved get to post. It is the only forum where we allow you to post copies of PM's, Emails, Text Messages. There is full disclosure. It works great when both parties participate. Now, If the problem gets settled. That is great. If not. Well, it is what it is. The good thing, is it does not let it become a free for all for Johnny's buddys to come in and attack the other person.

Now, If as I have read several times, "I never mentioned this, or my friend never mentioned it".......... That is on them. There have been several bad apple companies and individuals on here. By bringing it to light, it helps us to know who we can trust and not trust. But when there is "Y" company that is known to not produce, has a long history and it is well documented and I see someone come in bitching............ Well, There was plenty of info out there.

Then there are members who bring nothing but negativity to the site..................... Lets just leave it there............

Bottom line. Do your research, Find out about the Company, about the person................. If someone is giving you advice. Do your research, do they have the actual knowledge to give you? I learned the hard way a long time ago. Was having some tuning issues. My ski at the time liked a high Main Jet size. John (owns a company that many have dealt with) kept saying (In person mind you, we were riding at the same cove) you need to run an 80 Low Speed jet instead of 105, you are too rich......... Well, I changed them and guess what, ski ran like a raped ape for about 2 minutes then seized. To Lean. I knew I should have not done it. But at that point I was at a loss. He was sure he knew the answer and gave me the advice he had. But it was the wrong advice. I took it and it was on me. I dont blame him. I chalked it up to lesson learned. Oh, Carb had a crack in it, no amount of jetting would make it run right. Found this out later one when I sold them.

 

[waxhead]

We take our customers very seriously, if you have a part with a wax racing propducts we want to know. I would prefer that you contacted us first before giving us a spray online but I want to have customers feel like they have a great trade for their money. I hate it when a part turns up and its not what you thought you were getting. Some times mistakes happen but its how they are dealt with which I think that is the true test of a company

 

[CD155MX]

@Jcary85 please don't get out of the sport. There are too little of us as it is.

I feel you on your frustrations though. I bought a complete ski built by a "very reputable builder" in the eyes of the sport. This great reputation came from posts I had seen here on the X and from ridding buddies that has skis built by this builder as well. Unfortunately, I've found a many issues with the ski that have has me doing a full tear down and re-build to address foundational aliment issues and just plain lack of attention to detail that lead to broken parts and lots of lost ride time.

I have gone back and forth in my mind about whether to post a negative review and show all the problems. I think I've settled on not doing it though. To do it right, it would a ton of work to accurately and fully detail out all the issues in a clear and concise manner for the reader. I personally will spend my efforts to just fix the issues and make it right. I'll never trust the name of this "very reputable builder" ever again though and I'll let all my close riding buddies know about my experiences.

 

[mthomps]

@Jcary85 please don't get out of the sport. There are too little of us as it is.

No F that op. You do what you want. Nobody put money in to this thinking this is what you get.

 

[MarkWalker]

I get it 100%. Personally I think its due to there not being a ton of money in the sport so people have real jobs and their side gig is jetski related which limits time and effort they put into it. There are some great companies/people out there tho, just gotta find them and stick with them.

^This is Spot on^ It's such a small niche market. And you are within 2 degrees of knowing that person or someone close to him.

 

[Jcary85]

You are all right - it’s a niche sport. That’s all the more reason people should not F each other over.