300/440/550 Best 550 pipe

[x2ryder]

I have these 3 pipes right now. Any thoughts on the full Factory Pipe?

 

[the WaTeRhAwK]

I have these 3 pipes right now. Any thoughts on the full Factory Pipe?

the shortest of those full stainless chambers is the one you want to use, along with a low pitched prop, unless you feel like cutting rings off of the westcoast setup.


the half-pipe is going to yield bottom end under a load, only if the engine is capable of producing it, i/e larger bore, high compression, advanced timing, porting, etc..


if you run a low pitched prop and the half-pipe, it WILL give you actual low end response to mid-range/ upper mid, but you will not notice it with a low pitched prop winding out at those rpms since most of the useable powerband on your engine is mid/upper mid range to high rpms. the half-pipe will limit the amount of top rpms you can squeeze out of the engine under load.

if you run the half-pipe chamber with the higher pitched prop and stock cylinder, your take off will be slow, you will get decent mid range as the pump begins to unload, but you will still be limited at the top.

you want a chamber and prop setup that will allow the engine to quickly get to the upper mid-range, and on "large bore" setups, a big pipe will do that, even with the engine under load, but because of the 550's bore and down-stroke power, you need it to happen before the pump is fully putting a load on the engine, that's why you need the small pitch and short chamber, and with a small chamber it will allow a higher increase in top rpms.

these small engines and bores with the short throws to their cranks can easily top out at 10,000 rpms without flying apart, under a load with the right pipe and prop. that's a lot more than the bigger engines topping out at 7800 pushing steep pitched props. I have an msd setup on a 550 engine spinning a 13 pitched prop in a 440 pump, the msd is set to retard at 10,500 rpms, and with the setup I use, it uses just about every bit of that without a lot of pitch loading the engine down. it literally will jump out of the water from a dead stop when you slam the throttle, and it tops out around 42-45 depending on the condition of the water. I also run a split-vein mariner top-loader intake grate that also helps with allowing the engine to spool up before the pump completely loads.

 

[Tanman]

Is that blue west coast pipe 550 or 650? It looks like a 650 pipe I have and I really love because it is one of the few aftermarket pipes that will fit in a 550- 650 conversion ski. just a thought.

 

[x2ryder]

440/550 works pipe.

 

[the WaTeRhAwK]

what ski and engine setup are you riding in that pic for your avatar?

 

[x2ryder]

Thats my 98 Yamaha Super Jet. It has a 5mm stroker witha 85.5 (838) bore. Also running a set of 48 Power Bombs and a R&D dry pipe.

 

[the WaTeRhAwK]

Thats my 98 Yamaha Super Jet. It has a 5mm stroker witha 85.5 (838) bore. Also running a set of 48 Power Bombs and a R&D dry pipe.

I'd like to put an engine and pump setup like that into a 550 and see what it would do.

 

[Polish jet pilot]

the shortest of those full stainless chambers is the one you want to use, along with a low pitched prop, unless you feel like cutting rings off of the westcoast setup.


the half-pipe is going to yield bottom end under a load, only if the engine is capable of producing it, i/e larger bore, high compression, advanced timing, porting, etc..


if you run a low pitched prop and the half-pipe, it WILL give you actual low end response to mid-range/ upper mid, but you will not notice it with a low pitched prop winding out at those rpms since most of the useable powerband on your engine is mid/upper mid range to high rpms. the half-pipe will limit the amount of top rpms you can squeeze out of the engine under load.

if you run the half-pipe chamber with the higher pitched prop and stock cylinder, your take off will be slow, you will get decent mid range as the pump begins to unload, but you will still be limited at the top.

you want a chamber and prop setup that will allow the engine to quickly get to the upper mid-range, and on "large bore" setups, a big pipe will do that, even with the engine under load, but because of the 550's bore and down-stroke power, you need it to happen before the pump is fully putting a load on the engine, that's why you need the small pitch and short chamber, and with a small chamber it will allow a higher increase in top rpms.

these small engines and bores with the short throws to their cranks can easily top out at 10,000 rpms without flying apart, under a load with the right pipe and prop. that's a lot more than the bigger engines topping out at 7800 pushing steep pitched props. I have an msd setup on a 550 engine spinning a 13 pitched prop in a 440 pump, the msd is set to retard at 10,500 rpms, and with the setup I use, it uses just about every bit of that without a lot of pitch loading the engine down. it literally will jump out of the water from a dead stop when you slam the throttle, and it tops out around 42-45 depending on the condition of the water. I also run a split-vein mariner top-loader intake grate that also helps with allowing the engine to spool up before the pump completely loads.

I am no expert, but I heard that the longer the cone, the better low end you have...

 

[the WaTeRhAwK]

I am no expert, but I heard that the longer the cone, the better low end you have...

that's true, but only if the engine has the top end and/or down-stroke power to utilize the expansion area.

in stock form, a 550 is very anemic on the top when it's trying push a high pitched prop (a 440 is even worse), because the pump loads up and puts strain on the engine before the engine can reach the area of it's powerband where it's less effected by the pump load.

here's an example: take an electric fan with a metal blade and set the power on "low", take a heavy wrench and throw it into the fan. most likely with the power of the fan set to "low", when the wrench hits the blade it will stop the fan. that is the effect with low top end power vs. a high pitched prop.
on the other hand, if you set the fans' speed to "high" then throw the wrench at it, most likely the fan will throw the wrench across the room while trying to knock itself across the room in the process. that is the effect of having a pump not completely load up until the engine reaches a useable powerband.

with modifications to the cylinder to increase it's down-stroke power, it can utilize a larger expansion area and bring it's uesable powerband lower in rpms, thereby allowing the engine to efficiently spin a higher pitched prop that loads the pump quicker, at a lower rpm.

so, if you wan't "low-end effect" with a stock cylinder, you're going to have a to run a low pitched prop that takes longer to load the pump, and a small chamber that will allow the engines mid/upper mid range to high rpms to "hit" before the pump completely loads up. kinda like double clutchin' a rice rocket...lol

as I stated before, you can use a large chamber with a low pitched prop, but the rpms will be limited at the top of the poweband, as opposed to a small chamber, and it will be useless towards the desired effect.

 

[x2ryder]

I am putting the old 1/2 pipe on. I have pipes for sale!

 

[aboarder]

I dropped a ported reed valve 550 with high compression into my 440. I'm running all my old 440 parts right now. I know i should replace the 38 mm carb with a 44, but what do you think about the pipe? I'm running that same westcoast as in the picture. I don't care about top end. Should I cut an inch out of the chamber? I've got a toploader with a 13/17 impeller i think. I want it to pop out of the water when i hit the throttle.

 

[Big Kahuna]

that depends on what you're wanting the ski to do .if you wan't it to jump out of the water, and get up to about 42-45-50 mph(depending on what carb), then no, that's not the chamber to use, especially on a stock boat.

if you don't care about "out of the hole" speed, and are mainly interested in midrange and not much top speed. then yeah, throw a big chamber on a stock setup. it's a waste.

I am not referring to a full pipe. Only half pipe.

 

[the WaTeRhAwK]

I am not referring to a full pipe. Only half pipe.

yes, but the half pipe chamber along with the jetpower manifold is more expansion area, and longer than a "long" full pipe. that's a bunch of wasted expansion area for an anemic stock setup, performance wise.

 

[the WaTeRhAwK]

I dropped a ported reed valve 550 with high compression into my 440. I'm running all my old 440 parts right now. I know i should replace the 38 mm carb with a 44, but what do you think about the pipe? I'm running that same westcoast as in the picture. I don't care about top end. Should I cut an inch out of the chamber? I've got a toploader with a 13/17 impeller i think. I want it to pop out of the water when i hit the throttle.

if you don't care about top speed, on a stock bore setup, cut 5-6 of the rings off of the stinger and get a straight pitch 13 degree prop. the more rings you cut off the higher your top end will get out of it. the more you increase the bore i/e down-stroke power, the more rings you can run and maintain the same type of performance. it's gotta breathe too, so definitely get a 44mm, taper-bored 46, or dual 38 carbs.
get ahold of a flow control valve to put before the stinger to dry the waterbox out at low rpms, as well. upper mid-range to high rpms is where you need to be when the pump loads. too high of compression will screw with your top rpms too, especially on these small bores. 185 is about where you want to be with it and you can still run pump gas.

 

[oldschool440]

I run the same pipe on my 550 and i think that it has pretty good bottom and top end.

Started with a 91 440- i bought a 550 cylinder that Mike Melby did some magic to, milled the head to 155 psi and put that on top of my 440 cases. The pump is a 440 which might help with bottom end. I have a complete coffman exhaust including the manifold and the prop is a skat 15.0 and i have a bored venturi nozzle and advanced timing. I love my lil 550 it's alot of fun adn it gets some great air on lake Michigan.

 

[Big Kahuna]

yes, but the half pipe chamber along with the jetpower manifold is more expansion area, and longer than a "long" full pipe. that's a bunch of wasted expansion area for an anemic stock setup, performance wise.

I do believe FPP knows a thing or two about designing pipes.

 

[the WaTeRhAwK]

I do believe FPP knows a thing or two about designing pipes.

yeah, they design killer pipes. what's that got to do with anything?....lol

that has absolutely NOTHING to do with someone throwing one of their killer pipes on an anemic by comparison setup, and expecting any REAL results....lol
just leave it to the bolt-on junkies Harrison, they'll figure it out...lol

 

[Big Kahuna]

yeah, they design killer pipes. what's that got to do with anything?....lol

that has absolutely NOTHING to do with someone throwing one of their killer pipes on an anemic by comparison setup, and expecting any REAL results....lol
just leave it to the bolt-on junkies Harrison, they'll figure it out...lol

Oh, lets see. They took a 89 model 550 that was bone stock and started testing to see what kind of pipe they could come up with. Full Body pipes did not make the HP needed. These pipes really only work best with a ported motor, modified motor. They kept playing with them. What came about was the Half Pipe. It made good overall power throughout the power band. When the 91 came out with the Reed Induction their testing showed that this pipe was not utilizing the performance gains that the reed cylinder setup could provide. So, they designed a new chamber specifically for this pipe. Guess what, really good overall power. Would it let the 550's hit the upper 40's? No, not designed for that. That is where the PJS, Westcoast, Kerker, Coffmans came in. Along with higher compression, porting, ignition systems. With this setup the full pipes are the ticket.

 

[the WaTeRhAwK]

well ok, let's break this down into REAL aspects, H.

for plain old recreational riding, yeah, you throw a halfpipe setup on a bone stock 550 and you're going to get good linear/even overall response all through the powerband. that fact doesn't say or do a single bit of good for someone wanting good top speed, or good low end holeshot power. rec mods have turned more towards racing mods now days because most recreational riders are saying screw a bunch of "rec" crap that a company "recommends", etc..

so, yes, you can get decent "overall" power from a half pipe setup, but as far as a stock engine goes, you can forget about any type extreme performance at either end of the powerband with one.


I can throw a halfpipe on a stock 550, and for a recreational rider that doesn't know the true capabilities of a 10,000+ rpm engine, it will not make a bit of difference. however, in reality, the low end will completely suck, mid range will be decent, and the top end will suck. that is absolutely no good for someone wanting their ski to try and rip their arms off and jump out of the water.

I can take the same engine, put a shorty stainless kerker on it, with a 44mm carb, 185 lbs. of compression, and a 13 pitched prop, slap the throttle and it will violently try to leave you in place with sore shoulders, while rapping out at upwards of 10,000 rpms, with a pinned top speed of around 42-45 depending on the shape of the water.
the only way you're going to get that type of performance with a half-pipe setup is by exstensive modifications to the cylinder, i/e increased bore, race fuel compression, hogged out porting, the works.....

so, yeah, if you want all-around smooth performance throught the powerband, and by comparison you want it to be "meager" at best, go the half-pipe route on a stock set up, because that's exactly what you will get.

 

[x2ryder]

If I were to slap the Westcoast on how many rings would you say to cut off? Thanks