best hel cam for surf is out......time to sell the gopro

wavejunkie site....



dude, torr has been toting a helmet camera around for YEEEEEARS...



he was camming back when I was riding squarenoses!




I would definatly take his advice into account on camera gear....

i lost track of most those st aug hel cam vids i shot for you guys back in 05 but i kept the real good one the day we all went out on the pontoon,the surf was epic that day,i started doing rolls for the first time that day also.great vid though outside waves were huge that day when we first got out there,well overhead and clean.I live for days like that
 
cool vid with some nice first person action,but notice how far away the boat looks,makes it seem like your on a 250 ft tow rope,not that it matters for a wake board vid but a ski vid shooting others is much harder with a 170 lens
 

rasper99

Freighter wake hunter
Location
Portland, OR
I agree with the 170 degree POV angle is useless for doing video of other people. These days there are many point and shoot digital still cams that do HD video. They don't have 170 degree POV and even have optical zoom. The thing the Gopro has is the case. I've been Googling this weekend looking cases for Canon, Nikon, etc point and shoots. There are a lot of "plastic bag" options but hard cases seem to be available.
 

Dustin Mustangs

uʍop ǝpıs dn
Location
Holland, MI

Nascency Chris

The Nascency Project
Ok, hold the show for one second. You guys are trying to do comparisons based off of youtube videos. As a user, we have no idea if something has been color-graded, stabilized, or otherwise cleaned up. And then its down-rezzed to fit online which changes the quality again. To really do a true comparison people would need to post up their raw, straight from the camera footage in its original file format and let others download it to play with and decide for themselves.

Now, I have no dog in this race but I do prefer the higher rez footage of the GoPro HD (mainly because it matches up with the other stuff I have shot on the main cam). The Tachyon does look pretty interesting and I could see where alot of people here would be very happy with it results when shooting friends in the water boat to boat so to speak. The problem with the Tachyon is its resolution, it is still a standard def camera at its core, thus not allowing the flexibility of an HD cam. Why is HD resolution better when all you are doing is posting online videos?

By definition HD footage needs to be captured at a much higher data rate than standard def footage. The end result is that it gives you more data to work with when you pull the video off of the camera (more data=better color, sharpness, a cleaner looking image). For a benchmark consider this; standard HD cams (HDV, AVCHD, etc) record at a rate of anywhere from 22 to 35 Mbps. The GoPro records at a rate of 12-15 Mbps in either its 1080 or 720 modes (the 960 mode is just odd so I would not even consider using it), and I could not find what the Tachyon records to, but based on its resolution would guess somewhere slightly lower than the GoPro. MasterBlaster, would you happen to know this spec on the Tachyon cam?

What does all of this mumbo jumbo mean to the average user? Simply put, the more data you have to work with the better your end result can be. Granted how much and what type of post production work you put into it will also affect this but the starting point between the two cams is very different in my opinion.

While I do think videos with some edit/color work done to them are always better to watch I can still appreciate a raw, straight from the cam video because no matter what you do with your footage or how you captured it the end result is the same. People with a common interest sharing what they love to do with others, and as others have stated maybe getting people outside the sport interested as well, which benefits everyone in the long run. And please if you are one of these people who say that they do not want anymore people involved and ride zones would be too crowded etc... I really hope you don't have any videos posted because that will speak more to your own narcissism than anything else.
 
Chris.Yes the gopro hd is nice if your shooting edits for high quality work like yours to be watched on dvd on a tv,but quick uturd few min edits are fine at 640x480. when you switch from 480 p playpack to 720 or 1080 on utube,watching it in a 6x9 box on your comp mon,there is not much diff at all in the way it looks. Also the bigger issue is the lens at 170,its useless for shooting others,thats where they killed it,If they made it with a 90 lens and a rf waterproff remote it would be far more useful,also your avg freerider would rather spend 129 than 300 on a cam they could lose.
Working on setting up a group buy now with them,We need to know the total amount in the order to get a price set.
 

rasper99

Freighter wake hunter
Location
Portland, OR
I did some research on the Sanyo. Many unhappy campers on that one.

Then I started thinking which can be a dangerous thing. What makes the Gopro is the water proof case. As I said before maybe there are cases for other point and shoot cams that do HD video. Then the great and wise Chris spread his wisdom upon the thread...

I found this waterproof enclosure for Sony camcorders:
Sony waterproof housing

They are like $129 elsewhere. Add the appropriate Sony HD camcorder to fit inside and you are looking under under $500. More than the Gopro but it would also be my new tripod based beach cam for Surf Slam with lots of zoom. No problems making the helmet cam and beach videos match up.

It does look like it will end up being huge and heavy but its the results that matter. :smile:
 

Dustin Mustangs

uʍop ǝpıs dn
Location
Holland, MI
I did some research on the Sanyo. Many unhappy campers on that one.

Then I started thinking which can be a dangerous thing. What makes the Gopro is the water proof case. As I said before maybe there are cases for other point and shoot cams that do HD video. Then the great and wise Chris spread his wisdom upon the thread...

I found this waterproof enclosure for Sony camcorders:
Sony waterproof housing

They are like $129 elsewhere. Add the appropriate Sony HD camcorder to fit inside and you are looking under under $500. More than the Gopro but it would also be my new tripod based beach cam for Surf Slam with lots of zoom. No problems making the helmet cam and beach videos match up.

It does look like it will end up being huge and heavy but its the results that matter. :smile:

If you try to get something to use for both it will end up being a pretty major compromise on one end or the other. Get a waterproof helmet cam for on the water and a regular old camcorder to use from the beach. Add a pelican case to get the camcorder there safely and there is no need for the camera itself to be waterproof. This helmet cam is about the same price as the waterproof housing so it will end up costing about the same. You will find the option of having them both rolling at the same time is a major advantage and you also won't have to rip around with a camcorder duct taped to your head, lol.
 

rasper99

Freighter wake hunter
Location
Portland, OR
I already have a ATC2K as an SD (standard definition) helmet cam. If all you want is SD and no fish eye they have the ATC2K on Amazon for $59. The Tachyon is probably better but is the same 640X480 SD.

I also want to replace the SD camcorder I use on the beach. The Sony HD camcorders are full HD at 1920X1080. There isn't any consumer cam with more than that. The Sanyo HD mentioned earlier is 1280X720.

The Sony would be great quality for a beach cam and in the waterproof case it would be amazing. You can even take stills out of that which are 2 megapixels. I don't see a compromise. As I said I am concerned about how big and heavy it would be on my helmet. I don't plan to wear it all the time.

It's a bit of money but I want to do HD right and not buy two cams. All the video quality will match up. It won't need to be worked over in editing and still never match up. I have my own web site which gives me options to deliver it in full HD down loadable movies . The quality is ready for someday when it becomes affordable to burn Blu-Rays. It's not in the league of Chris N's stuff but I could be very happy.

Let's give it a few months and see what video everyone comes up with. I've got some plans and the freighter tracking web site.
 
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yea bro if you wana spend 500 or more on a good hel cam for really killer hd stuff,there are way better options out for that now with bullet cams and built on wired recorders. Trust me the last thing you want hangin off your helmet is a bunch of cam weight for riding surf.
JC the sales director of gopro is traveling right now,but is emailing me and saying he will work something out for us as a group buy,I will know more next week
 

rasper99

Freighter wake hunter
Location
Portland, OR
I said I want to replace my beach cam which i was already planning to do. For another $129 I could have a non-fish eye, good optics on water option. I am tired of crappy SD video.

If you are tight with the Gopro guy ask him "why the fish eye". If it didn't have that I and many here might consider it.
 
already spoke with them,its covered in this thread or the other somewhere. Why do you feel you need a waterproff housing for a beach cam?
 

rasper99

Freighter wake hunter
Location
Portland, OR
In regards to the enclosure I said "on water option". I don't necessarily need it on the beach. It would be better than the plastic bag I've used for those times it's rained sideways on the beach here in the Northwest. When there is a lot of wind whipping up sand and salt spray I get concerned about my current old SD beach cam. I'm surprised it still works after 7 years times 6 or 7 video shoot beach trips a year.

Could you quickly summarize the fish eye/the future issue and save us a lot of reading? Personally I think they do the fish eye so the video isn't as shaky. You have to be pretty dedicated (i.e. not concerned about your own safety) to shoot helmet cam video with non-fish eye and have it smooth.

Let's all find a solutions that works for us and compare videos in a few months. Looking forward to a great summer season!
 

Peter123

C-Note
Location
Houston, TX
I keep reading references to "crappy SD", but I believe too many people are too quick to make judgements based on two letters.

Is HD automatically better than SD? No.

Which picture do you think will look better, one shot with a $10,000 dollar SD camera with superior optics (in comparison) and three 1/2" CCD's or one shot with a $300 HD camera with poor optics (in comparison) and a single 1/8" CCD? Do all 8MP cameras have better looking photos than all 5MP cameras?

The difference between HD and SD is the number of pixels and aspect ratio only. It says nothing to optics or the image sensor(s).

And even more important is whether or not the subject is captured. After all, which film do people want to see, the low quality 8mm film shot by Zapruder or the 16mm film shot by the news team showing the back of the motorcade?

When all things are equal, of course HD is much more desirable than SD, but are all things equal between these cameras? We know they have different lens configurations, and we know they use different imaging chips. I'm guessing the image of the GoPro will be superior to the Tachyon, but I'd like to see an actual comparison that would justify the extra cost, weight and angle differences.
 
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