yes... well kinda... it doesnt stop in the middle of flowing, but will sometimes not grab the water to begin the pumping because of the air in the pump housing. then you have to turn it off and back on to get it to pump.
Bilge Pump Comparison Attwood Tsunami 500 vs Rule 500
- Thread starter 2lick
- Start date
yes... well kinda... it doesnt stop in the middle of flowing, but will sometimes not grab the water to begin the pumping because of the air in the pump housing. then you have to turn it off and back on to get it to pump.
WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
Yeah which kinda sucks because mine is on an AC sensing switch.
WFO Speedracer
A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
- Location
- Alabama
Its a polaris bilge pump switch it senses ac current and switches the pump on,so basically if the ski is running the pump is on.
stanton
High on jetskis.
- Location
- atascadero,ca
i think the problem is the impeller cavitating badly because it spins much faster when not pumping and when it comes in contact with water it cant bite it. the 360 must spin slower and this not cavitate.
the rule rep. i talked to never heard of the 360 being any better.
so if your bilge is full of water and youre stalled, you have to start your engine in order to pump out water???
you may want to rethink that system you got there. at least parallel a manual switch with the ac sensing switch.
better still, ditch the ac sensing switch altogether.
its fine for a big hollow couch, but for a real ski.... not so much
Last edited:
FreestyleFreak
Region 7 AM Freestyle
- Location
- 615
Im a rule man down to the bone.
vjhardcore
Ride It Like Ya Stole IT!
- Location
- Toronto, Canada
Not alot of feadback on the Attwoods? I heard they were good? Who uses them? Do they fit the Blowsion double bracket? and still fit under the shaft? Anyone?
- Location
- Beaumont Texas
Bilge Pump Experiments.
I preformed all of the following tests in my bathtub. I did not test the pumps flow rates, as there are numerous sources online detailing pumps advertised vs delivered flow. I did however test the pumps for dependability, and and Air Binding. Water levels in the bathtub were maintained flush with the top of the bilge pump; for consistency among the tested pumps.
After many trips to Academy I pretty much tested every bilge they have. I will list them below and my experiences with them.
Rule-Mate 750 and 1100:
Automatic pump with spongability.
Cycle time: According to the MFR this pump is not supposed to turn on until the float switch has been in the up position for 2 full seconds. Findings=false with power to the pump, simply shaking the pump in an upward direction once will turn the pump on. This means in a jet ski, it will basically be running the entire time as the ski bounces up and down often.
: Supposedly the pump will run for 15 seconds after the float switch reaches the down position. Findings=true Pump functions according to MFR
: Air Binding: I found that with this pump if the water shifts away from it momentarily that it will begin air binding. How I tested this was to partially lift the pump from the water with it running. Once the pump lost its prime it failed to regain it prime until the power was cycled. Finding=unacceptable. With an automatic pump you cannot cycle the battery. In a Jet Ski one can expect the water to shift and slosh often cause a pump to lose its prime, whilst not staying dry long enough for the dry sensor to cycle power.
Summery: The Rule-mate 750 will cycle from the bounce of the Jet Ski, it will Air Bind badly. I realize there are people on this forum that swear by the Rule-Mate; but in my tests it would appear this pump would run nearly full time in a ski. If you wish to have a pump running full time, buy a cheaper non automatic one and just use the fuse method. Not a good buy.
Attwood Sahara pumps 500 and 750 automatic:
I could not find a detailed listing of how this pump was designed to function concerning the pump cycle/pump delay.
Cycle: Pump turned on in a similar manner as the Rule-mate. This pump would basically run the entire time as the ski’s bouncing would turn it on.
Air Binding: Same outcome as the Rule-Mates listed above.
Anyone noticing a trend here?
Rule 360:
Air Binding: Pump operated as described by the MFR until the water was shifted away; pump momentarily Air Binded momentarily then continued normal operation.
Summery: Although this pump does not move large volumes of water, it is dependable.
Rule 500: pump operated as described by the MFR until the water was shifted away; pump Air binded and sometimes continued normal operation.
Summery: This pump cannot be expected to instantly regain prime after an Air bind, this knowledge should be considered after a sub or fountain.
Rule 800: Pump operated as described by the MFR until the water was shifted away; Pump Air Binded and failed to regain its prime until the power had been cycled.
Summery: This pump really moves some water, but I would recommend cycling the switch any time you feel it may have Air Binded.
Attwood Tsunami 500 and 800: Both of these pumps operated normally until the water was shifted away. The 500 sometimes regained its prime without cycling the power while the 800 just like the Rule 800failed to regain prime without cycling the power.
Now that I have covered all of the pumps I will touch on come of the other experiments I conducted. I tried multiple tube routing configurations to see if any would solve the air binding problems, Short tube, long tube, tube with a loop in it, high head, and low head.
Short hoses tend to air bind less but having a short hose alone does not guarantee pump operation.
Long hoses appeared to slow the flow rate, but keep in mind I did not measure flow rates.
Hoses with loops did not seem to have much affect at all, until I reached the next experiment.
In my quest to eliminate Air binding on all tested pumps I poked a hole( a little smaller than a pencil seemed to work well) in the bottom of the hose near the bilge pump. While in an Air Bind situation this hole allowed the water to drain from the hose until the head was small enough for the pump to overcome the Air Bind and continue normal operation. The amount of time it takes each pump to regain prime with this method varied, but all did regain within 30 seconds.
You read that correctly, as others have mentioned on this forum a hole in the base of the tube does allow the pumps to regain prime. Power cycling was not necessary on any of the pumps to overcome Air Bind with the hole. Clearly two problems present them selves with this fix, flow rate is presumably diminished and now any time the exit goes below the water line it is allowed to flow in.
Summery: All centrifugal pumps Air Bind ( except the 350, its to slow anyway) and power cycling is the best method of regaining prime. If power cycling is not an option, poking a hole in the bottom of the hose will allow the pumps to regain prime, but GPH is lost.
I ask that anyone willing to test the GPH lost by poking a hole in the hose please do so and post results here. I did not have a 5 gallon bucked to pump into in order to test GPH.
This post and my tests are meant to be helpful, if you have no constructive advice or criticism take it else where please.
I preformed all of the following tests in my bathtub. I did not test the pumps flow rates, as there are numerous sources online detailing pumps advertised vs delivered flow. I did however test the pumps for dependability, and and Air Binding. Water levels in the bathtub were maintained flush with the top of the bilge pump; for consistency among the tested pumps.
After many trips to Academy I pretty much tested every bilge they have. I will list them below and my experiences with them.
Rule-Mate 750 and 1100:
Automatic pump with spongability.
Cycle time: According to the MFR this pump is not supposed to turn on until the float switch has been in the up position for 2 full seconds. Findings=false with power to the pump, simply shaking the pump in an upward direction once will turn the pump on. This means in a jet ski, it will basically be running the entire time as the ski bounces up and down often.
: Supposedly the pump will run for 15 seconds after the float switch reaches the down position. Findings=true Pump functions according to MFR
: Air Binding: I found that with this pump if the water shifts away from it momentarily that it will begin air binding. How I tested this was to partially lift the pump from the water with it running. Once the pump lost its prime it failed to regain it prime until the power was cycled. Finding=unacceptable. With an automatic pump you cannot cycle the battery. In a Jet Ski one can expect the water to shift and slosh often cause a pump to lose its prime, whilst not staying dry long enough for the dry sensor to cycle power.
Summery: The Rule-mate 750 will cycle from the bounce of the Jet Ski, it will Air Bind badly. I realize there are people on this forum that swear by the Rule-Mate; but in my tests it would appear this pump would run nearly full time in a ski. If you wish to have a pump running full time, buy a cheaper non automatic one and just use the fuse method. Not a good buy.
Attwood Sahara pumps 500 and 750 automatic:
I could not find a detailed listing of how this pump was designed to function concerning the pump cycle/pump delay.
Cycle: Pump turned on in a similar manner as the Rule-mate. This pump would basically run the entire time as the ski’s bouncing would turn it on.
Air Binding: Same outcome as the Rule-Mates listed above.
Anyone noticing a trend here?
Rule 360:
Air Binding: Pump operated as described by the MFR until the water was shifted away; pump momentarily Air Binded momentarily then continued normal operation.
Summery: Although this pump does not move large volumes of water, it is dependable.
Rule 500: pump operated as described by the MFR until the water was shifted away; pump Air binded and sometimes continued normal operation.
Summery: This pump cannot be expected to instantly regain prime after an Air bind, this knowledge should be considered after a sub or fountain.
Rule 800: Pump operated as described by the MFR until the water was shifted away; Pump Air Binded and failed to regain its prime until the power had been cycled.
Summery: This pump really moves some water, but I would recommend cycling the switch any time you feel it may have Air Binded.
Attwood Tsunami 500 and 800: Both of these pumps operated normally until the water was shifted away. The 500 sometimes regained its prime without cycling the power while the 800 just like the Rule 800failed to regain prime without cycling the power.
Now that I have covered all of the pumps I will touch on come of the other experiments I conducted. I tried multiple tube routing configurations to see if any would solve the air binding problems, Short tube, long tube, tube with a loop in it, high head, and low head.
Short hoses tend to air bind less but having a short hose alone does not guarantee pump operation.
Long hoses appeared to slow the flow rate, but keep in mind I did not measure flow rates.
Hoses with loops did not seem to have much affect at all, until I reached the next experiment.
In my quest to eliminate Air binding on all tested pumps I poked a hole( a little smaller than a pencil seemed to work well) in the bottom of the hose near the bilge pump. While in an Air Bind situation this hole allowed the water to drain from the hose until the head was small enough for the pump to overcome the Air Bind and continue normal operation. The amount of time it takes each pump to regain prime with this method varied, but all did regain within 30 seconds.
You read that correctly, as others have mentioned on this forum a hole in the base of the tube does allow the pumps to regain prime. Power cycling was not necessary on any of the pumps to overcome Air Bind with the hole. Clearly two problems present them selves with this fix, flow rate is presumably diminished and now any time the exit goes below the water line it is allowed to flow in.
Summery: All centrifugal pumps Air Bind ( except the 350, its to slow anyway) and power cycling is the best method of regaining prime. If power cycling is not an option, poking a hole in the bottom of the hose will allow the pumps to regain prime, but GPH is lost.
I ask that anyone willing to test the GPH lost by poking a hole in the hose please do so and post results here. I did not have a 5 gallon bucked to pump into in order to test GPH.
This post and my tests are meant to be helpful, if you have no constructive advice or criticism take it else where please.
Last edited:
Mouthfulloflake
ISJWTA member #2
- Location
- NW Arkansas
( reposted from above to easier to read color)
THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME AND testing and typing this info up!
Bilge Pump Experiments.
I preformed all of the following tests in my bathtub. I did not test the pumps flow rates, as there are numerous sources online detailing pumps advertised vs delivered flow. I did however test the pumps for dependability, and and Air Binding. Water levels in the bathtub were maintained flush with the top of the bilge pump; for consistency among the tested pumps.
After many trips to Academy I pretty much tested every bilge they have. I will list them below and my experiences with them.
Rule-Mate 750 and 1100:
Automatic pump with spongability.
Cycle time: According to the MFR this pump is not supposed to turn on until the float switch has been in the up position for 2 full seconds. Findings=false with power to the pump, simply shaking the pump in an upward direction once will turn the pump on. This means in a jet ski, it will basically be running the entire time as the ski bounces up and down often.
: Supposedly the pump will run for 15 seconds after the float switch reaches the down position. Findings=true Pump functions according to MFR
: Air Binding: I found that with this pump if the water shifts away from it momentarily that it will begin air binding. How I tested this was to partially lift the pump from the water with it running. Once the pump lost its prime it failed to regain it prime until the power was cycled. Finding=unacceptable. With an automatic pump you cannot cycle the battery. In a Jet Ski one can expect the water to shift and slosh often cause a pump to lose its prime, whilst not staying dry long enough for the dry sensor to cycle power.
Summery: The Rule-mate 750 will cycle from the bounce of the Jet Ski, it will Air Bind badly. I realize there are people on this forum that swear by the Rule-Mate; but in my tests it would appear this pump would run nearly full time in a ski. If you wish to have a pump running full time, buy a cheaper non automatic one and just use the fuse method. Not a good buy.
Attwood Sahara pumps 500 and 750 automatic:
I could not find a detailed listing of how this pump was designed to function concerning the pump cycle/pump delay.
Cycle: Pump turned on in a similar manner as the Rule-mate. This pump would basically run the entire time as the ski’s bouncing would turn it on.
Air Binding: Same outcome as the Rule-Mates listed above.
Anyone noticing a trend here?
Rule 360:
Air Binding: Pump operated as described by the MFR until the water was shifted away; pump momentarily Air Binded momentarily then continued normal operation.
Summery: Although this pump does not move large volumes of water, it is dependable.
Rule 500: pump operated as described by the MFR until the water was shifted away; pump Air binded and sometimes continued normal operation.
Summery: This pump cannot be expected to instantly regain prime after an Air bind, this knowledge should be considered after a sub or fountain.
Rule 800: Pump operated as described by the MFR until the water was shifted away; Pump Air Binded and failed to regain its prime until the power had been cycled.
Summery: This pump really moves some water, but I would recommend cycling the switch any time you feel it may have Air Binded.
Attwood Tsunami 500 and 800: Both of these pumps operated normally until the water was shifted away. The 500 sometimes regained its prime without cycling the power while the 800 just like the Rule 800failed to regain prime without cycling the power.
Now that I have covered all of the pumps I will touch on come of the other experiments I conducted. I tried multiple tube routing configurations to see if any would solve the air binding problems, Short tube, long tube, tube with a loop in it, high head, and low head.
Short hoses tend to air bind less but having a short hose alone does not guarantee pump operation.
Long hoses appeared to slow the flow rate, but keep in mind I did not measure flow rates.
Hoses with loops did not seem to have much affect at all, until I reached the next experiment.
In my quest to eliminate Air binding on all tested pumps I poked a hole( a little smaller than a pencil seemed to work well) in the bottom of the hose near the bilge pump. While in an Air Bind situation this hole allowed the water to drain from the hose until the head was small enough for the pump to overcome the Air Bind and continue normal operation. The amount of time it takes each pump to regain prime with this method varied, but all did regain within 30 seconds.
You read that correctly, as others have mentioned on this forum a hole in the base of the tube does allow the pumps to regain prime. Power cycling was not necessary on any of the pumps to overcome Air Bind with the hole. Clearly two problems present them selves with this fix, flow rate is presumably diminished and now any time the exit goes below the water line it is allowed to flow in.
Summery: All centrifugal pumps Air Bind ( except the 350, its to slow anyway) and power cycling is the best method of regaining prime. If power cycling is not an option, poking a hole in the bottom of the hose will allow the pumps to regain prime, but GPH is lost.
I ask that anyone willing to test the GPH lost by poking a hole in the hose please do so and post results here. I did not have a 5 gallon bucked to pump into in order to test GPH.
This post and my tests are meant to be helpful, if you have no constructive advice or criticism take it else where please.
THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME AND testing and typing this info up!
Bilge Pump Experiments.
I preformed all of the following tests in my bathtub. I did not test the pumps flow rates, as there are numerous sources online detailing pumps advertised vs delivered flow. I did however test the pumps for dependability, and and Air Binding. Water levels in the bathtub were maintained flush with the top of the bilge pump; for consistency among the tested pumps.
After many trips to Academy I pretty much tested every bilge they have. I will list them below and my experiences with them.
Rule-Mate 750 and 1100:
Automatic pump with spongability.
Cycle time: According to the MFR this pump is not supposed to turn on until the float switch has been in the up position for 2 full seconds. Findings=false with power to the pump, simply shaking the pump in an upward direction once will turn the pump on. This means in a jet ski, it will basically be running the entire time as the ski bounces up and down often.
: Supposedly the pump will run for 15 seconds after the float switch reaches the down position. Findings=true Pump functions according to MFR
: Air Binding: I found that with this pump if the water shifts away from it momentarily that it will begin air binding. How I tested this was to partially lift the pump from the water with it running. Once the pump lost its prime it failed to regain it prime until the power was cycled. Finding=unacceptable. With an automatic pump you cannot cycle the battery. In a Jet Ski one can expect the water to shift and slosh often cause a pump to lose its prime, whilst not staying dry long enough for the dry sensor to cycle power.
Summery: The Rule-mate 750 will cycle from the bounce of the Jet Ski, it will Air Bind badly. I realize there are people on this forum that swear by the Rule-Mate; but in my tests it would appear this pump would run nearly full time in a ski. If you wish to have a pump running full time, buy a cheaper non automatic one and just use the fuse method. Not a good buy.
Attwood Sahara pumps 500 and 750 automatic:
I could not find a detailed listing of how this pump was designed to function concerning the pump cycle/pump delay.
Cycle: Pump turned on in a similar manner as the Rule-mate. This pump would basically run the entire time as the ski’s bouncing would turn it on.
Air Binding: Same outcome as the Rule-Mates listed above.
Anyone noticing a trend here?
Rule 360:
Air Binding: Pump operated as described by the MFR until the water was shifted away; pump momentarily Air Binded momentarily then continued normal operation.
Summery: Although this pump does not move large volumes of water, it is dependable.
Rule 500: pump operated as described by the MFR until the water was shifted away; pump Air binded and sometimes continued normal operation.
Summery: This pump cannot be expected to instantly regain prime after an Air bind, this knowledge should be considered after a sub or fountain.
Rule 800: Pump operated as described by the MFR until the water was shifted away; Pump Air Binded and failed to regain its prime until the power had been cycled.
Summery: This pump really moves some water, but I would recommend cycling the switch any time you feel it may have Air Binded.
Attwood Tsunami 500 and 800: Both of these pumps operated normally until the water was shifted away. The 500 sometimes regained its prime without cycling the power while the 800 just like the Rule 800failed to regain prime without cycling the power.
Now that I have covered all of the pumps I will touch on come of the other experiments I conducted. I tried multiple tube routing configurations to see if any would solve the air binding problems, Short tube, long tube, tube with a loop in it, high head, and low head.
Short hoses tend to air bind less but having a short hose alone does not guarantee pump operation.
Long hoses appeared to slow the flow rate, but keep in mind I did not measure flow rates.
Hoses with loops did not seem to have much affect at all, until I reached the next experiment.
In my quest to eliminate Air binding on all tested pumps I poked a hole( a little smaller than a pencil seemed to work well) in the bottom of the hose near the bilge pump. While in an Air Bind situation this hole allowed the water to drain from the hose until the head was small enough for the pump to overcome the Air Bind and continue normal operation. The amount of time it takes each pump to regain prime with this method varied, but all did regain within 30 seconds.
You read that correctly, as others have mentioned on this forum a hole in the base of the tube does allow the pumps to regain prime. Power cycling was not necessary on any of the pumps to overcome Air Bind with the hole. Clearly two problems present them selves with this fix, flow rate is presumably diminished and now any time the exit goes below the water line it is allowed to flow in.
Summery: All centrifugal pumps Air Bind ( except the 350, its to slow anyway) and power cycling is the best method of regaining prime. If power cycling is not an option, poking a hole in the bottom of the hose will allow the pumps to regain prime, but GPH is lost.
I ask that anyone willing to test the GPH lost by poking a hole in the hose please do so and post results here. I did not have a 5 gallon bucked to pump into in order to test GPH.
This post and my tests are meant to be helpful, if you have no constructive advice or criticism take it else where please.
3wheelerdude
Talk less, Ride more!
- Location
- Ontario Canada
Up here in Canada, all I can get now is Seasense bilge pumps. No more Rules nor Attwoods.
Not only do they airlock like crazy, but the shafts bend very easily on top of it.
My old Attwoods are still rocking after many seasons and I keep replacing the Seasense.
Not only do they airlock like crazy, but the shafts bend very easily on top of it.
My old Attwoods are still rocking after many seasons and I keep replacing the Seasense.
Shifty
- SuperJet Thursday -
- Location
- Austin Texas - Lake LBJ
Vongassit
Space monkey
- Location
- Eilean a cheo
Shifty
- SuperJet Thursday -
- Location
- Austin Texas - Lake LBJ
That looks pretty low profile, I wonder if you could run two parallel to one another lengthwise down the boat? Maybe the offset strainer would help keep the prime too?
- Location
- Beaumont Texas
Has anyone tried running a bilge using a momentary switch? Today I bought a universal kill switch meant for use on dirt bikes; I am hopeing it will work as a bilge switch. If anyone has any experiance with this let me know.
My plan is to run a fused hot to the bilge, and then use the kill switch to provide the ground. I understand that I will have to hold the button for the bilge to continue so please dont tell me that. this will make cycling power to stop an Air Bind very easy though.
Ok, so I have installed the bilge using this switch before anyone could reply.
Although i have not yet ridden the ski I did test it by putting a few gallons in the hull with a water hose. The switch seems to handle the load fine, and the rule-800 takes the water out faster than the hose puts it in!!
The real test will be after the switch has been submerged a few times. Crossing my fingers.
My plan is to run a fused hot to the bilge, and then use the kill switch to provide the ground. I understand that I will have to hold the button for the bilge to continue so please dont tell me that. this will make cycling power to stop an Air Bind very easy though.
Ok, so I have installed the bilge using this switch before anyone could reply.
Although i have not yet ridden the ski I did test it by putting a few gallons in the hull with a water hose. The switch seems to handle the load fine, and the rule-800 takes the water out faster than the hose puts it in!!
The real test will be after the switch has been submerged a few times. Crossing my fingers.
Last edited:
- Location
- Beaumont Texas
Ohh wow, it's been ages and I never posted the results. Sorry for/if anyone who was interested in trying it.
It worked surprisingly well. Never once got zapped.
I would not recomend it though, it proved to be annoying how long I had to hold it with a single Bilgepump. Might be more friendly with two 800GPH pumps in the hull though.
It worked surprisingly well. Never once got zapped.
I would not recomend it though, it proved to be annoying how long I had to hold it with a single Bilgepump. Might be more friendly with two 800GPH pumps in the hull though.
JLight
Spanky
- Location
- Bangor, ME
I think I have an idea I might try with that kill switch. I have the atwood tsunami. I think I'm going to wire it to a switch and then put a normally closed relay in the ground line that the kill switch can disengage. Thus hitting the kill switch will momentarily stop the pump to clear an air bind.
What do you guys think?
What do you guys think?
Shifty
- SuperJet Thursday -
- Location
- Austin Texas - Lake LBJ
I recently installed bilges in my ski for the first time ever. Based on what I read, I used two Rule 360's at the rear, I have experienced zero airbinding and the water is removed plenty fast for me.
- Location
- Beaumont Texas
As long as the relay is water-proofed well, it should work great.
Please report back if you try it. We can make this a great source of info for people trying to choose a pump/switch set up.