Surfriding Bond rail width and its effect on handling

[Cannibal]

I know so many of the new hulls have nice wide rails and some people have gone as far as grafting wide rails onto thier skis.

I was brainstorming my SXR build. The SXR already has wide rails in the rear, about 2.5", but up front, where the front buldges out, the rails are only 1.5". Would I gain anything by making the rail width uniform front to back like the crude paint drawing attached?

I already need to build bond rails for the top deck up front, and need to glass the bottom deck, so adding wider rails up front won't be that much more work.

This isn't just an SXR thing, as anyone with Tubbies basically has the same thing going on, wider rails in the rear of thier ski than the front.



Yes ^ it's a jet ski

 

[dbattersby20]

i cant comment from experience. But im thinking the bond rail is most important in the rear. The front part of your ski doesn't go under water nearly as much as the rear and if it does tubbies will give the extra lift to the front. so i don't think you'll benefit from it very it much. i plan on just flaring the bond rail on the rear of my ski eventually. do you notice while riding that you often have water coming over the bond rail and wish you had a little extra lift at that point? does it help with carving?

Stop drawing inappropriate things on paint.

 

[Cannibal]

The SXR actually has a tendancy to dive the nose on hard turns and it may help with this.

I can honestly say I've never payed much attention to the amount of water coming over the front bond rail while hitting a wave to see if additional width would play much of a role with nose lift in these situations.

I know Crab runs some additional width in the front of his ski. He simply added probably 3/4" of material to the outside of the rail, the width between the hull and rail are still the same. He likes it.

 

[JPCharmin]

View attachment 172367

Yes ^ it's a jet ski

Your picture looks a little funny.....

 

[Cannibal]

Your picture looks a little funny.....

Don't be jealous of my drawing skills, they rank right up there with my other skills....like nunchuku skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills...gets me chicks.

 

[sjetrider]

the top may be thin at the front but the bottom isnt. I cannot see how it would help, in fact you would prolly find it will SUCK when carving hard enough to get the part of the rail in the water.
Grab / slap/ BIOTCH LIKE.

 

[JPCharmin]

Don't be jealous of my drawing skills, they rank right up there with my other skills....like nunchuku skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills...gets me chicks.

haha! f\_/ck yea

 

[special fx]

I'm going the other way......I like narrow rails. Wide rails make the hulls so stable that I think it's taking some of the fun (challenge) out of it. I've seen people stop and just stand there on some of the new hulls and that just seems wrong (sitdown-ish).

 

[Berky]

Your drawing is unprotected .

 

[Nuklear6]

I agree with specialfx about the wide rails taking some of the challenge out of riding due to stability. I Dont think however adding some rail width to the front 1/4 of the ski will largely effect the handling or add any stability. What it may do is give you that added little bit of help resisting pearling down the face of a wave or when re-entering nose down in to the white water. I rode an fx in daytona that had just widened rails around the tubbies like what you have drawn and it handled just like my fx, but was harder to dig the nose.

 

[Tyler Zane]

I'm going the other way......I like narrow rails. Wide rails make the hulls so stable that I think it's taking some of the fun (challenge) out of it. I've seen people stop and just stand there on some of the new hulls and that just seems wrong (sitdown-ish).

"like"

 

[Cannibal]

What it may do is give you that added little bit of help resisting pearling down the face of a wave or when re-entering nose down in to the white water. I rode an fx in daytona that had just widened rails around the tubbies like what you have drawn and it handled just like my fx, but was harder to dig the nose.

This is what I picture when talking about just widening the front. Also helping pop the nose up when hitting a wave.

I personally love the stability that the SXR gives. I wonder if you guys would feel the same way about stable skis if you rode in the nasty washing machine surf we have out here.

 

[227]

I think its a great idea, as a matter of fact I've been toying with trying the EXACT same thing, widening the bond rails on only the front portion of the ski, around the Tubbies. The only reason I haven't tried it yet is because I've flat out been to lazy. THis is one of the few mods that I really haven't seen anyone try yet. Some one said Crab has done it, I'd like to see pictures of that and get a review. Hopefully he'll chime in. The way I see it is, if it sucks, you can always put it back the way it was.

 

[Cannibal]

Ya, Crab didn't widen the rail channel per se, he added some of that 3/4 or 1" PVC trim from Home Depot to the outside of the existing rail in the front (lets say 1/3rd) of his ski. I rode it in the surf, but didn't have another ski with Destroyers to compare it to, so couldn't really feel what change if any. He loves it though, and that was one of my motivations for such a mod.

In flat water, I can't really see much of a difference in handling, maybe a little extra lift from a set up wake, IDK.

 

[#ZERO]

Wider rails on jet-ski is like riding a bicycle with training wheels; it's good for beginners but you'll eventually want to take them off. It will improve lateral stability at low speeds but it's not going to keep the nose from diving on turns. I would suggest using sponsons up front and leave the rails stock.

 

[227]

Wider rails on jet-ski is like riding a bicycle with training wheels; it's good for beginners but you'll eventually want to take them off. It will improve lateral stability at low speeds but it's not going to keep the nose from diving on turns. I would suggest using sponsons up front and leave the rails stock.

So you've tried it? Do you have any pics of what you did? Normally, I would tend to agree with this statement, especially if the rails where widened the entire length of the ski. But simply widening them in the front to compensate for the area lost after installing Tubbies, and leaving the rear section narrow for release is a different scenario. Seems to me it would have a similar positive effect, the same as adding a raised/flipped up nose and bond line, especially for surf riders. I doubt any flat water guys would want to do this.

 

[Kny21]

http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/101035-ScottS-wide-bond-rail-2-lowered-tray-SJ-mods&highlight=

http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/103960-ScottS-rail-mod-attempt&highlight=scotts

 

[Cannibal]

Wider rails on jet-ski is like riding a bicycle with training wheels; it's good for beginners but you'll eventually want to take them off. It will improve lateral stability at low speeds but it's not going to keep the nose from diving on turns. I would suggest using sponsons up front and leave the rails stock.

Is it really training wheels, or natural progression of equipment? Why isn't everyone riding 550s and FXs?

I've never heard anyone complain about the wide rails on a Superfreak, Rickter or BOB (or any other wide rail'd ski).

I know I'm not the only one who likes stable skis. For me, staying out of the water means I can ride longer. Heck, maybe I don't need wider rails, maybe I need an outrigger.

http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/101035-ScottS-wide-bond-rail-2-lowered-tray-SJ-mods&highlight=

http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/103960-ScottS-rail-mod-attempt&highlight=scotts

These are the builds I was talking about guys modifying their skis. A couple cool projects.

 

[227]

http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/101035-ScottS-wide-bond-rail-2-lowered-tray-SJ-mods&highlight=

http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/103960-ScottS-rail-mod-attempt&highlight=scotts

I've seen the first thread-

this one; http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/...ods&highlight=

in fact I posted in it (#29). The OP widened his rails the entire length of the ski though, and he and several guys who rode it gave it good reviews. HOW EVER, I'm thinking the extra width at the rear would tend to hurt the skis performance. The rear of the ski doesn't need lift and needs to be narrow so the ski will turn. MY guess is that widening only the front section will work even better, I've never seen a review from some who has widened only the FRONT section (around the Tubbie area) of the bond rail. Crabs pics are inconclusive and don't really show anything

 

[Cannibal]

I'm not sure it has much effect on cornering, at least not in a negative manner anyway. Once you lean the ski over, one rail is deep in the water, the other is out. It would keep the back end from sinking as far in giving more planing surface. The SXR has wide rails out back already, and it's really built to be a race ski.