Cdi red white wire ?
- Thread starter Mwrunt
- Start date
- Location
- some where
...funny!... your stumbling on an "25yr old trick" or secret?
X stator will respond diff than, "t"stator
Disconnecting wh/rd wire when use of aux control system (ewis/etc) will cause u a headache
X stator will respond diff than, "t"stator
Disconnecting wh/rd wire when use of aux control system (ewis/etc) will cause u a headache
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- Rentz, GA
That's what I did and posted about above. I checked timing both ways and found that the timing at @900rpm advances by 3 deg when disconnected and then never moves regardless of RPM. If I run it up to 3500rpm and disconnect the wire, the timing is advanced by @12deg.
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I havnt got the stator cover off yet I don't know what stator is in there but I suspect it's a 61x to match the cdi that's in the ski. But it's a 62t engine so who knows....funny!... your stumbling on an "25yr old trick" or secret?
X stator will respond diff than, "t"stator
Disconnecting wh/rd wire when use of aux control system (ewis/etc) will cause u a headache
- Location
- some where
Ocd
What timing rate will u c with wire disconect?
With a stator set full advance.....
Wont work on t stator same
What timing rate will u c with wire disconect?
With a stator set full advance.....
Wont work on t stator same
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- Rentz, GA
I'll have to do some research to answer that accurately. I have to establish where zero static timing is first before I can give relative timing data.
http://www.dragonfly75.com/motorbike/timingcurves.html
This is a very good read about two stroke ignition timing.
This is a very good read about two stroke ignition timing.
Do u see any problems running a 62t cdi with a 61x flywheel
OCD Solutions
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- Location
- Rentz, GA
I believe that as long as you match up the stator and flywheel, either CDI will work, you will just have to adapt the plugs on the white/red wire to match.
FYI, in the last day or so I have connected up both 61X and 62T CDI's to my test bench outfitted with a 61X stator and flywheel and didn't notice any change in function. I have not fully bench tested or measured either combination to quantify any real differences though.
FYI, in the last day or so I have connected up both 61X and 62T CDI's to my test bench outfitted with a 61X stator and flywheel and didn't notice any change in function. I have not fully bench tested or measured either combination to quantify any real differences though.
waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
If the pulse coil runs of the ground only then how do you complete the circuit with the red wire disconected
It seems the pulse coil is sending positive or maybe ac through both wires.
The reason I was thinking negative is that's how points and Hal effect ignitions mostly trigger is through negative signal.
I am not a mechanic just have a fair bit of knowledge building costom bikes and cars learned from my father who was a mechanic and trial and error.
I had my crappy voltmeter on these wires and couldn't get a good reading. So it mite even be a ac signal
Ok just got back from the lake and my initial problem is fixed. (Turned out I had a bad coil) which explains why the ski ran fine when it was first launched. And as the coil heats up it starts to fail.
So I but a jumper wire on the white with red wire and fed it outside the e box and put a disconnect on it. This way I can do multiple comparisons without taking to much apart. With the wire connected the ski runs clean through the rpm but can't seem to reach the rev limiter. With it disconnected the bottom end lags but it hits harder on the top end.
Keep in mind I have no idea if my timing is correct as I havnt pulled the flywheel to check it and my ski is a mosh mash of parts from the previous owner. As well my carbs are adjusted back to a baseline as well as the pissers in the b pipe.
I will retune as soon as I can and try to test more.
Best place to start is to see the timing curve once OCD has a chance to check that.
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- Rentz, GA
Alright, long story short, if you disconnect the white wire with the red stripe, the CDI will still produce a spark at 18deg and it will remain there for the entire rpm range.
FYI, here's a screenshot of the stock curve vs an MSD curve so you can see what the curve is supposed to look like. You're actually not missing much that a 2-3deg advance at the stator plate wouldn't smarten up.
FYI, here's a screenshot of the stock curve vs an MSD curve so you can see what the curve is supposed to look like. You're actually not missing much that a 2-3deg advance at the stator plate wouldn't smarten up.
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- Rentz, GA
Here's a better pic of the stock 61x/62T timing curve plotted against the flatline of 18 deg that you would get if you unplug the white wire with the red stripe.
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- Rentz, GA
I just used a timing light and degree wheel.
The sad news is, I blew up the controller for my drive motor so my test bench is currently DOA.
The sad news is, I blew up the controller for my drive motor so my test bench is currently DOA.
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Thanks for spending the time testing this. Makes me wonder if u advance the timing 2 or 3 degrees and unplug the wire if it would be worth it for a free upgrade.
Loose a little down low and gain a lot more top end.
Loose a little down low and gain a lot more top end.
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- Rentz, GA
Well here's the deal, if you are running a basically stock boat and plan to keep it that way then I say you aren't likely going to notice much of a difference and it would get you by. I would caution that you aren't pulling the timing out on the top end that you run increased risk of burning the engine down if you spend any time whatsoever at WOT. Now, if you are looking for any type of performance gain and you see this little mod as an advantage of any kind, you need to go back to school. This is not an upgrade. It is a hack! This is a compromise at best to a very well designed system and essentially a step backwards. So why would you do it other than to just get you by until replacement parts arrive?
Anyways, ScottS has been hitting his limiter lately so he's going to test it this weekend and report back. He has quick connects in his harness so it's pretty easy to disconnect the white/red wire on the fly.
As for all the testing, it was no trouble at all and was very educational for me and exactly the reason why I built my test bench in the first place. My intention was to build a platform to test stators and learn the characteristics of different types of failures. You can spend months reading up on theory and then learn more in 5 minutes with actual hands on application.
P.S. I would have had this figured out days ago but I had forgotten that my test bench runs backwards to keep the couplers from unthreading. None of my timing numbers were adding up until the little light went on and I remembered reversing it.
Anyways, ScottS has been hitting his limiter lately so he's going to test it this weekend and report back. He has quick connects in his harness so it's pretty easy to disconnect the white/red wire on the fly.
As for all the testing, it was no trouble at all and was very educational for me and exactly the reason why I built my test bench in the first place. My intention was to build a platform to test stators and learn the characteristics of different types of failures. You can spend months reading up on theory and then learn more in 5 minutes with actual hands on application.
P.S. I would have had this figured out days ago but I had forgotten that my test bench runs backwards to keep the couplers from unthreading. None of my timing numbers were adding up until the little light went on and I remembered reversing it.
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- Location
- Savannah, GA
My MSD Enhancer died, so I threw in a stock CDI until I could get a replacement. With my XS865, it was constantly hitting the rev limiter. Boyer ask me to try disconnecting the white/red and see what it did to the power band. With the JSS wire harness, I was able to disconnect the wire without opening the e-box, so it was easy.
With the white/red wire connected, it had decent low end power right up to the rev limiter. With the white/red disconnected, there was a noticeable loss of punch, a little burble in the mid-range and flat top end, but no rev limiting.
Then I put in the replacement MSD Enhancer. Testing back to back, I was really surprised at the difference. It felt way more zippier (like that word), it was cleaner, quicker and smoother. I mention smoother because when I had the stock CDI in, it had a slight vibration like a big bore feels, with the MSD, it was smooth.
Interesting, I noticed this same rough to smooth transition when I replaced my ATP Epic with the MSD awhile back, when the Epic bit the dust. I’ve had a bad year with CDI’s. I have no idea why my 865 runs smoother with the MSD than either the stock or the Epic.
Boyer is right, don’t waste your time running the stock CDI with the white/red wire disconnected to eliminate the rev limiter, it dulls the power.
With the white/red wire connected, it had decent low end power right up to the rev limiter. With the white/red disconnected, there was a noticeable loss of punch, a little burble in the mid-range and flat top end, but no rev limiting.
Then I put in the replacement MSD Enhancer. Testing back to back, I was really surprised at the difference. It felt way more zippier (like that word), it was cleaner, quicker and smoother. I mention smoother because when I had the stock CDI in, it had a slight vibration like a big bore feels, with the MSD, it was smooth.
Interesting, I noticed this same rough to smooth transition when I replaced my ATP Epic with the MSD awhile back, when the Epic bit the dust. I’ve had a bad year with CDI’s. I have no idea why my 865 runs smoother with the MSD than either the stock or the Epic.
Boyer is right, don’t waste your time running the stock CDI with the white/red wire disconnected to eliminate the rev limiter, it dulls the power.
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- Rentz, GA
I had the expensive timing light out today and figured I'd revisit this topic now that I had my test bench repaired and a new timing light to work with. I was actually shocked at what I observed.
I'll try and post the video to show what I learned today but basically, it holds 16deg of static advance just as I had previously reported but as the rpm increases beyond 3000 RPM, the timing actually starts to retard until it reaches 0deg TDC around 8000 RPM.
Further evidence that while probably safe to run, this is still a performance killer.
I'll try and post the video to show what I learned today but basically, it holds 16deg of static advance just as I had previously reported but as the rpm increases beyond 3000 RPM, the timing actually starts to retard until it reaches 0deg TDC around 8000 RPM.
Further evidence that while probably safe to run, this is still a performance killer.
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