Charging system troubleshooting

Trevorbm

“Only full sends, we’ll fix it later”
Location
Xenia Ohio
Just as the title says ski doesn’t charge. What would be the procedure to diagnose the issue. New battery, swapped voltage regulators, new used stator that was advertised as charging. Zeeltronic cdi and lightened oem flywheel. 62t stator about to buy a new oem stator bc I’m frustrated at it haha
 
No way to Bench Test a Flywheel (OCD hasn't built one yet ;)).

The machining process to lighten the Flywheel can damage the Magnets by applying Heat and Bending stresses.

So can using an Impact Wrench to remove the Flywheel Bolt, beating on a Flywheel trying to pull it out or the impact shock from dropping a Flywheel on a hard surface.

The Magnet Field Strength is too easily damaged...
 
I would perform an A/C voltage test on the stator before you
replace anything.

I also have a non-scientific test for magnets. Use a large flat head
screw driver, ~12" and lay the tip flat on the magnets. If it is difficult
to pull up and away from the magnet, that is a good sign.

There used to be magnet failures on aluminum flywheels, and that
is how we tested them.

But the A/C voltage test is easier and conclusive.


Bill M.
 

Trevorbm

“Only full sends, we’ll fix it later”
Location
Xenia Ohio
I would perform an A/C voltage test on the stator before you
replace anything.

I also have a non-scientific test for magnets. Use a large flat head
screw driver, ~12" and lay the tip flat on the magnets. If it is difficult
to pull up and away from the magnet, that is a good sign.

There used to be magnet failures on aluminum flywheels, and that
is how we tested them.

But the A/C voltage test is easier and conclusive.


Bill M.
What’s the process to do the ac voltage test?
 

OCD Solutions

Original, Clean and Dependable Solutions
Location
Rentz, GA
I've looked into what it would take to establish a benchmark on what a good flywheel looks like and it appears tricks like the screwdriver test will continue to be the best options. Sure I can buy a nice gauss meter but unless other's buy one, having the values are pointless. It's very likely that actual values would vary from device to device too so once again, values would be pointless unless you take the time to establish your own baselines with each particular device with known good and bad flywheels.

Here's a decent video with three practical options for bench testing a flywheel. Not identical to ours but the principles are all the same. If you wanted to get fancy, you could attach a digial force measuring tool to the screwdriver or metallic object and capture the amount of force required to pull the tool free.

I use the procedures in the Yamaha manual to test stator output with a Peak Voltage adapter in my Fluke 87 meter.
They are very simple components that give you the true output of the stator, and they aren't that expensive.
 

Attachments

  • Yamaha Peak Voltage Testing.pdf
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  • Yamaha Superjet Electical Chapter.pdf
    2.7 MB · Views: 2
Too bad that a Flywheel needs to be installed and the Engine completely assembled, started and revved to test the Flywheel Magnet and Coil Voltage Output to find a sketchy Flywheel.

So if the AC Voltage Output is low, still don't know if the Coil or the Flywheel Magnets are bad or both.

Then, the Coil needs to be tested Cold for Resistance and Hot for Layer Shorts.

If the Coil is good, then it's the Flywheel. Now got to pull the bad Flywheel, find another (used) Flywheel, install it, and then test again...Pete and Repete till you get a good Flywheel. Not fun.

Will the Screwdriver test detect a split or divided magnetic Field in the same Magnet? I see that a cracked Magnet will act as two new Magnets with each having a Field Strength a fraction of the Original Magnet in proportion to it's new size. So, if a Magnet is cracked in two even halves, then each magnet will have 50% of the Original Magnet's Strength.

It will still produce a Current, but it will be weaker and probably erratic. Runs good at low rpms, but breaks up at high rpms.

I suppose that, with experience, one could get a "feel" for the normal OEM Magnet Strength acting on a Screwdriver. Guess seeing how much Steel Weight a good Flywheel Magnet can and should hold is the simplest way. That or buy a Gauss Meter ($75+) and measure the Field on a known good Flywheel, then one would have a baseline to use as a reference to check Flywheels.

Is there a way to figure/calculate what the Gauss Magnet rating should be based on the OEM specified max Output Wattage? Or the AC Voltage spec'd max Output? 'Cause different Flywheels have different strength Magnets, especially among different OEMs. Seadoo Magnetos typically have the highest Wattage Output due to all the Electrical Gizmos and Bells & Whistles built into the Seadoo Energy Hog Electrical System.

Any 'Lectricians, Kilowatts, 'Tronic Techs or Double E's know?

Just looking for different ways to skin the cat...'cause I'm curious ;)
 
Majority of the charging issues I have personally encountered and seen with others is on lightened flywheels. See JC’s post. I experienced charging issues on two flywheels I worked on that were lightened by so called experts on this board. They honesty didn’t know they inadvertently screwed up the flywheel.
 
Location
Wisconsin
Majority of the charging issues I have personally encountered and seen with others is on lightened flywheels. See JC’s post. I experienced charging issues on two flywheels I worked on that were lightened by so called experts on this board. They honesty didn’t know they inadvertently screwed up the flywheel.
In what way were they screwed up?
 
Like JC said above:

“The machining process to lighten the Flywheel can damage the Magnets by applying Heat and Bending stresses”.
 
Heat most definitely will ruin a magnet. And fast. I've ruined quite a few in my time. Not so sure about impact or bending. Haven't had that happen yet. Otherwise. They will outlast you. And your jet ski.

Output test of the stator is best test for charging issues.
 
Here's another way to check Flywheel Magnets:

"You can use a multimeter to measure the resistance between each pair of adjacent poles on the magnet. If there’s a significant difference between measurements, it might suggest that some magnets are weaker than others."

So all Flywheel Magnet Resistance readings should be about identical, if they are good.

Good Magnets have no cracks and the Magnet Atom orientations are aligned allowing lower resistance.

 

Trevorbm

“Only full sends, we’ll fix it later”
Location
Xenia Ohio
Thanks everyone for the feedback going to be swapping my motor to a Tpe 964. When I pull the motor I’m going to check the flywheel. If that ends up being the problem should I swap to a aftermarket aluminum flywheel or try my luck with another lightened oem?
 
I've run normal stock flywheels on all my skis. From a 650 superjet. To my 1100 10mil dasa. I subscribe to a larger flywheel has benefits that a smaller flywheel doesn't. A flywheel is a critical part of the system and why someone would add all the potential problems, for a tiny increase in theottle response. Is beyond me
 
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