CNC builds

[Vumad]

I am looking for a general purpose CNC controller setup. Something with at least 4 axis that supports spindle control, limits, home, and tooling calibration (not sure the name but where it pushes the bit into the sensor to calibrate Z height on a mill). I want a controller / stepper that could be put on a benchtop mill, benchtop lathe or a router table. I don't want a cheap Chinese knockoff. I might be able to run it off the desktop I do my CAD with, but if it's parallel or ethernet I would need a card addon. Looking to spend under $1000 for everything, and closer to $500 would be ideal if possible.

I currently have a Chinese 1HP mill and a harbor freight lathe. I am also interested in building a router table. Things have been going exceptionally well with Fushion 360 and my 3D printers and need to get these other machines automated. I can handle the mechanical conversions (ball screws, adapters, etc) but I have no idea where to start on the electronics.

That are just so many choices. Too many cheap knockoffs that aren't compatible with this or that.Too many that have too few features. Also it's not a simple single device plug in. For example, the gecko 540 is parallel so it needs a parallel card or an additional add on controller. Then a lot of these are not compatible with many CAM programs (I do not currently have a CAM). I use fushion360 for everything.

Hoping someone who knows what's what knows of some options for a complete setup that is very versatile. Trying to ask on CNCzone but I never got the confirmation e-mail.

 

[Big Kahuna]

@OCD Solutions

 

[OCD Solutions]

I run my Gecko G540 on a 32 bit WIN 10 box with a USB100 Interface.

They say it won’t work but it will. Just make sure to get the genuine one and not the pirate one on eBay.

 

[Magnum Mike]

I agree, Gecko G540. I use an ethernet based smoothstepper with it. It all works great in Mach3.

 

[Vumad]

Yeah OCD and I have been texting. Was opening the discussion up for anyone else who wants to participate. Also there are a bunch of little items that are going to add up that maybe some others could chime in on since OCD is busy with work and I’m pestering him enough already.

Looks like right now I am going to be looking at the...

Driver - gecko 540 ($260)
Controller - USB100 ($180)
—-OR— parallel expansion board ($30)
Motors - 350oz (my z-axis works like a drill press so I don’t think I need a larger motor)
As an electronics kit it’s about $700-800

https://www.automationtechnologiesi...ill-electronics-kit-gecko-g540-110vac-220vac/

Then I am going to need a bunch of misc items like motor couplers. I’ll run the machine on lead screws to test the controller, then I’ll buy ball screws and 3D print a test adapter kit, then either machine them on lead screws or outsource those files. That’s the plan anyway.

Later I’ll use the same controller / driver to run my lathe and hopefully build a router table again using the same controller.

I’m also looking at building a mITX pc to run it which would give me a portable CAD/editing rig which would run my machine while I am home.

Case - node 202 (or 3d printer custom briefcase/clamshell build)
Mobo - z370m or z470m
CPU - i5-9500 or 10400
Ram - 8gb ddr4 (already own it)
Psu - sfx450 (already own it)
Gpu - rx480 (already own it)
Total on the pc is about $800 but I have the ram, psu and gpu so about $500.

3d printer - Davinci pro 1.0 (already own it)
—-and—- creality cr10s5 (on backorder)

Mill was craigslist and lathe was a harbor freight display unit. Mill is great, lathe is less than perfect and missing the threading gears.

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[Vumad]

I run my Gecko G540 on a 32 bit WIN 10 box with a USB100 Interface.

They say it won’t work but it will. Just make sure to get the genuine one and not the pirate one on eBay.

Will 64 bit windows be okay?

I agree, Gecko G540. I use an ethernet based smoothstepper with it. It all works great in Mach3.

Mach 4 is only $25 more. Considering I don't already have mach3, I plan to get mach4, unless there is some good reason I should not.

 

[te4250]

Cnczone will be a great resource once your on there. Although I’ve said it here before I’ll say it again, with the price of used machine tools I don’t think it’s worth all the trouble to have something that can hardly run a 1/4” endmill through aluminum. And by the second part you make you’ll wish you had a tool changer. I have bought complete running cnc lathes and mills for less than $500. You just have to keep your eyes open. If your determined though I think the gecko everyone is recommending is well supported and mine was decent when I had one controlling 4 axes (two motors on x) on a plasma table.

 

[Vumad]

Cnczone will be a great resource once your on there. Although I’ve said it here before I’ll say it again, with the price of used machine tools I don’t think it’s worth all the trouble to have something that can hardly run a 1/4” endmill through aluminum. And by the second part you make you’ll wish you had a tool changer. I have bought complete running cnc lathes and mills for less than $500. You just have to keep your eyes open. If your determined though I think the gecko everyone is recommending is well supported and mine was decent when I had one controlling 4 axes (two motors on x) on a plasma table.

A lot of it has to do with learning he electrical side. If I can get everything working on lead screws, then I might replace the mill rather than buying ball screws. The reason I want a versatile controller is that it gives me options to convert the mill, the lathe, build a router table or a large format 3d printer.

I am always looking for a used machine but I am hesitant because I don't have any experience. I don't know how to verify the condition of the machine, definitely not the electronics, and since I don't have much space, any machine I get has to be small. I've seen machine shop auctions, but that's not a place I belong yet.

 

[te4250]

I have bought quite a few machines sight unseen at auction. Just make sure you pay less than scrap and you'll be fine if its clapped out lol. But in all seriousness I have never seen a machine at auction that will make worse parts than a benchtop hobby mill. A boxed way machine will have a better chance of being good to go than a guide machine. I have gotten a couple guide machines where one guide stopped getting lube and was pretty much shot. You can get a boxed way machine where it stopped getting lube and tore up the turcite. I've put new turcite in two machines though and the ways themselves were fine. Turcite is cheaper than linear guides.
Space is always a problem. Despite me just saying a boxed way machine would be a safer bet, I would look at some of the brother machines. They usually go cheap and are very compact for their capability. Fanuc robodrills are similar but usually command a higher price.
If your willing to retrofit a manual mill figuring out an old control shouldn't be a problem

 

[Magnum Mike]

Years ago when I did my seig x3 cnc conversion mach4 was released but mach3 was still preferred. I have not upgraded to mach4 yet, not sure if I will until there is a reason. I forgot about mach4 when I made my post, you should probably start there.

 

[OCD Solutions]

I’ve looked into upgrading to Mach4 a few times now but each time I read through the advantages, I end up sticking with 3.

I can’t remember the specifics but I am pretty sure that it didn’t unlock or add anything that was restricting me.

The only limit I see with mach3 is the 500 lines of code. That’s pretty easy to get around if you ever did find yourself writing larger programs.

 

[Magnum Mike]

I bought mach3 so i dont have that 500 line limit. The output from mastercam for thread milling etc quickly passes that, especially with shallow step cuts I like to take.

 

[OCD Solutions]

I just break my code into multiple smaller programs but I’m doing pretty basic stuff still.

I bet that tool changer eats up the lines as well unless you can use canned cycles for that.

 

[Vumad]

I think this is what I need to get going...

Not sure about single shaft motors vs dual shaft since I don't know what I am doing and might need to use it manually until I get it figured out.

Also not sure I need that big 900 oz motor for my Z-axis because of the way my Z-axis works...

1 - driver with PSU and 3 motors... $557
https://www.automationtechnologiesi...ll-electronics-kit-gecko-g540-110vac220vac-2/

1 - UC100 for USB conversion $109
https://www.automationtechnologiesi...ach4-motion-controller/usb-motion-controller/

2 - 1/4" to 12mm couplers for x&y... 2x$10=$20
https://www.automationtechnologiesi...ews-nuts/aluminum-shaft-coupling-quarter-inc/

1 - z-axis coupler???
?????? Shaft is huge, about 25mm

1 - Mach 4 license $200

That's about $700 in hardware, not including any ball screws etc, so about $1000 in conversion. And $200 for the Mach 4. My mill is wroth about $600-800 so pushing a $2000 investment.

I'm open to another mill, but the only thing I can find is the CNC master junior at $6000.

 

[Vumad]

Cnc masters has their max machine on sale for $5900. It’s much bigger than the junior but I think it’s pushing $7000 to get it home ready to run. That’s a lot of monies...


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[OCD Solutions]

Any one of those kits is going to be a good starting platform to get you started. The PSU is the heart so make sure to get one big enough to cover off any future upgrades. The controller will run any machine so there’s no worry there.

I bought the kit with the 350’s but upgraded to 500’s but I had gone for the bigger PSU so it was as simple as swapping out the motors when they came on sale for $35.

I didn’t care for the dual shaft motors at first until I was shopping for some kind of cover and found a rotary knob that slides right on. This gives you the ability to spin the motor in manual if desired. I don’t use it on the mill but I do use these all the time on the lathe.

Pretty sure I got them from eBay.

There are quite a few companies that sell complete small machines for under $10k. I was $3500 into mine when I found a mini Tormack with a full enclosure, flood coolant, mister, tool changer and a ton of other little features. I can’t remember if it was $7500 or $11k though but I remember doing the math and it didn’t add up. Besides, once you start dropping that kind of money, you can be getting into a much bigger and capable used machine that would be so much better. If, you have the space for it.

 

[OCD Solutions]

The Tormach 770 was the mill I referenced above but all the current models are more expensive than I remembered. The 440 is the only model around $11K.
https://tormach.com/machines/mills.html

 

[OCD Solutions]

9 best CNC mills under $10K
https://theedgecutter.com/best-cnc-mill-under-10k/

 

[Vumad]

Any one of those kits is going to be a good starting platform to get you started. The PSU is the heart so make sure to get one big enough to cover off any future upgrades. The controller will run any machine so there’s no worry there.

I bought the kit with the 350’s but upgraded to 500’s but I had gone for the bigger PSU so it was as simple as swapping out the motors when they came on sale for $35.

I didn’t care for the dual shaft motors at first until I was shopping for some kind of cover and found a rotary knob that slides right on. This gives you the ability to spin the motor in manual if desired. I don’t use it on the mill but I do use these all the time on the lathe.

Pretty sure I got them from eBay.

There are quite a few companies that sell complete small machines for under $10k. I was $3500 into mine when I found a mini Tormack with a full enclosure, flood coolant, mister, tool changer and a ton of other little features. I can’t remember if it was $7500 or $11k though but I remember doing the math and it didn’t add up. Besides, once you start dropping that kind of money, you can be getting into a much bigger and capable used machine that would be so much better. If, you have the space for it.

I was thinking about buying the pieces rather than the kit. Which PSU do you recommend? My long game is to reuse the psu, g540 and Uc100 to run multiple different machines.


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[OCD Solutions]

If that's cheaper then go for it, especially if you want to substitute any one of the components.

The 12.5 Amp PSU should be plenty. IIRC, the other option was only 7.3 Amps which could be a limiting factor if you ever need a 1200oz motor for your Z axis like I have.
I always upsize my PSU's by at least 50% of max connected load.

I have the aluminum box for the G540 I'm not using if you are interested.
https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-controller-box/g540box/

I'm not ready to pull the trigger on the DC servos yet so I'm going to hold onto my 540 setup for the time being.