Other Direct Injected Two Strokes

Vumad

Vumad

Super Hero, with a cape!
Location
St. Pete, FL
Matt_E said:
It may be possible for a standup, but it's more than just bolting on a different head. I really doubt that Yamaha would bother for the couple hundred units they sell per year here in the US.
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It took them 12 years to add sponsons to the hull, and they broke the steering in the process. They haven't bothered to increase the displacement or exhaust in 18 years. They wont be dropping a DI motor in the hull, they don't even make a DI anymore to work into the hull. Lets just all be happy with the awesome changes we have gotten, like no more caps on the carb screws. Awesomely innovative.
 
Pro-pulsion

Pro-pulsion

Location
Ontario, Canada
I would love to see the two stroke technology come back. I personally think the true potential of the two stroke is still yet to be discovered. I noticed that some people had heard of FICHT fuel injection on this thread but had no real knowledge of it, so I wanted to chime in on the older skis with some DI tech. Of course BRP, they had their version of it as mentioned with the 951DI back in the late 1990's. OMC (Johnson/Evinrude) brought out in 2001 the FICHT fuel injected two stroke outboard engine which turned out to be a nightmare of a flop. 2002 Polaris adopted the FICHT fuel injection system on their first new style watercraft called the Genesis, again a massive flop of a craft...but then again they never really could get it right with any of their skis, probably why they dropped production of them in 2004.

I remember we spent way too many hours trying to figure out the problems with any OMC engine using that fuel injection, about every other week there were new software updates which never corrected a thing. In the end and about a year later OMC had finally determined that the injectors themselves were the issue, they were pumping too much raw fuel into the cylinders due to the injector nozzle design. They redesigned them with a little center spigot to help fan out the fuel charge allowing it to fully vaporize. I never really heard after I left the marine dealership whether or not OMC continued that project. That was all going on when OMC was prepping to sell the corporation to two buyers, Mercury and BRP which finally happened in 2003. But it certainly does show that direct injection two stroke engines have been around for some time. I often wondered if the stand-up industry would adopt the technology that Sthil Power Equipment brought out in 2002 with the 4 mix high powered 4 stroke weed trimmer that has no crank case oil bath, it still uses two stroke mix but is 30% more efficient and they claimed something like 15% more power over the two stroke version.

http://en.stihl.ca/4-mix-engine-lightweight-and-with-good-lugging-power.aspx
 
200%Absolut

200%Absolut

Location
Corsica FRANCE
I hope 2 stroke will come back ETEC motors are a good way to that.
I've owned a GTX RFI great motor and very reliable. very very simple indirect injection low on 0uel and oil.
 
makejetskiinggreatagain

makejetskiinggreatagain

Brandon
any engineers on here wanna team up and try to come up with something? I'm a machinist and could do some simple prototyping on my lunch breaks. I dont have access to the CNC's for projects of my own, but can use the manual mills and lathes whenever i want (off the clock of course). it may take a while, but I'd be willing to put in the work.
 
Matt_E

Matt_E

steals hub caps from cars
Site Supporter
Location
at peace
200%Absolut said:
I hope 2 stroke will come back ETEC motors are a good way to that.
I've owned a GTX RFI great motor and very reliable. very very simple indirect injection low on 0uel and oil.
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The RFI motor is a throttle body injection. Hardly better than carba
 
makejetskiinggreatagain

makejetskiinggreatagain

Brandon
ha ha ya that's what I would prefer as well but with all the talk of two strokes being outlawed on lakes, us land locked folk want to have another technology lined up
 
NVJAY775

NVJAY775

My home away from home.
Location
Gardnerville, Nevada, United States
I'd love it to work for that reason alone. Tahoe is high and cold, but I'd kill to ride those waves. It's a 30 minute drive for me.

But I don't know how much electrical drain will be needed to run the inj. I love my TL and don't want to give that up. Trade offs I guess...
 
S

SJ 701X

Location
In a hole
FPF said:
ha ha ya that's what I would prefer as well but with all the talk of two strokes being outlawed on lakes, us land locked folk want to have another technology lined up
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A good idea would be getting rid of stupid state officials that let this stuff go through.
 
Proformance1

Proformance1

Liquid Insanity
Location
New York Crew
Ok all you injection guys, go buy an octane with a blown motor, 1500 bucks, then buy a virage i 1500 bucks. swap the motor and electrics from the virage i to the octane, DONE. Let me know how you like it. both have 777 motors in them. Then crack the code, hook a lap top to the computer and change stuff around till u like it or someting blows up. DFI technologies may even help you with the code, if youre lucky. The bottom end on the 777 didnt hit that hard, but neither did the carbed motor IMO. Worth a shot.
 
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Quinc

Quinc

Buy a Superjet
Location
California
Athena presents an innovative and revolutionary technology for 2 stroke engines.

The direct injection system D.I.C.C. (Direct Injection Combustion Control) engineered to introduce into the cylinder thru an injector the fuel needed only at the end of scavenging. With this method the injection is done only with air and not with mixture. The idea is to obtain regular condition with lean mixture (excess of oxygen) realizing stratified charge status inside the combustion chamber, in all working conditions. Leave out from the combustion most quantity of lubricant. This system achieves all those aims with a simple and economically advantageous layout from the industrialization point of view, with standard “off the shelf” components.

The short application time and minimal need of engineering in order to apply this technology to existing engines are only a few of the key advantages. The D.I.C.C. technology guaranties a reduction of fuel consumption and emissions of up to 50%.
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http://www.athenaparts.com/eng/blog/2SDI-direct-injection-combustion-control
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gVeqix2Yc4
 
BMWtech

BMWtech

Location
SWFL
I work on cars with direct injection every day. Would hate to work on a PWC with DI.

The injectors themselves tend to leak fairly often. (I'm guessing due to the insane fuel pressure they operate on.) This leads to long cranks and rough running many times not to mention fouled plugs.

You'd need a tank pump and then a high pressure pump (which would be mechanically driven - robbing HP) to get the fuel into the motor. You'd need a computer to control everything. And, as mentioned, a way to lubricate the bottom end. I'll pass.
 
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Quinc

Quinc

Buy a Superjet
Location
California
LimitedSlip7 said:
You still need a way to lubricate your bearings...
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BMWtech said:
I work on cars with direct injection every day. Would hate to work on a PWC with DI.

The injectors themselves tend to leak fairly often. (I'm guessing due to the insane fuel pressure they operate on.) This leads to long cranks and rough running many times not to mention fouled plugs.

You'd need a tank pump and then a high pressure pump (which would be mechanically driven - robbing HP) to get the fuel into the motor. You'd need a computer to control everything. And, as mentioned, a way to lubricate the bottom end. I'll pass.
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Looks like Stihl found away around using a pump.


  • Fewer emissions: The fuel burns with very little in the way of residues and thus complies with the strict European exhaust emission limits, Stage II.
  • No oil servicing: Easy maintenance, as it uses the familiar fuel mix.
  • Lightweight: The mix-lubricated system avoids the need for components like an oil pump, sump and oil tank as on conventional four-strokes.
  • Lower noise threshold: Pleasant sound, even at high power.
  • Lugging power and high torque: Very good acceleration for plenty of power.
  • Lightweight for easy servicing



    Its mix-lubricated fuel system makes the STIHL 4-MIX engine lightweight. Components like an oil pump, oil tank and sump normally needed with conventional four-strokes are not required with the 4-MIX engine. Fiddly chores like regularly adjusting the valve play, checking the oil level, changing the oil and disposing of waste oil are thus a thing of the past.



    The athena one you can even add to your weed whacker. I can't find anymore info on the Athena one though...
 
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