Dry Carbon tubes for RRP Pole?

[gdjetski]

I found this factory can make the carbon tube in right size for my Bun or RRP pole, But I don't know how much Thickness will be strong enough or should I ask the factory put the carbon outside the Aluminum tube? Anyone got any idea?

 

[burton391]

Carbon outside. I would think you would still need the aluminum tube.

 

[hink320]

That looks sweet in carbon, where can I get some?

 

[OptimaRacing]

If you are going just for the looks of Carbon, you can have the aluminum tubes "Hydro Dipped" or "Hydro Graphiced". It is a thin film of "graphic" that is applied by water transfer. Very nice finish but it will scratch with the 0 tolerance's of the handlepole brackets. We can help with this if you don't have someone local to do so.

Mike@OptimaRacing.com <-------------Email Address

 

[Snivilous]

From my dad (Civil engineer):

Question: How thick would you need the tubes on the pole to be in carbon, with a rough guess?

Answer: .050", the main issue is how you attach the tube to the base/top of the pole.


If you want a more exact answer, just find online the equations to calculate the required thickness or if you have an engineer friend, ask him. There is no need to have aluminum tubing, as carbon layups are stronger in almost every instance and weigh less at the same time. Though as said, main issue is the bonding and cost.

EDIT: Check out this guys tubing: http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/122601...market-poles&p=1370276&viewfull=1#post1370276

 

[yamanube]

No offense but I don't think a civil engineer is the correct type of engineer to consult on something like this.
There should be no reason why you couldn't make carbon tubes that are strong enough for this application, I would consult a reputable hull builder or somebody familiar with carbon construction (aircraft, wind surf, etc.). I guess if you know statics and the exact specifications of the material you could do the calculations.

 

[Snivilous]

Civil engineering does more structures than any other discipline, and knowing how to do a composite layup doesn't mean you know how or why the material needs to be a certain thickness or how it behaves, outside of basic trial and error from working with it.

 

[Lucaumpits]

The new RRP pole has thinner tubes then a standard cast or billet pole
The new tubes I bet only few ounces

 

[CARBONX2]

Carbon and aluminum react, not going to last

 

[yamanube]

Civil engineering does more structures than any other discipline, and knowing how to do a composite layup doesn't mean you know how or why the material needs to be a certain thickness or how it behaves, outside of basic trial and error from working with it.

I have been a designer for multiple civil engineering firms in the past 7 years, I dont think i would ask anybody I have personally worked with for advice on this subject. Some engineers may be more knowledgeable on the subject but the application is considerably different than an application they would usually deal with?

 

[Supajet]

I really don't think you are going to have any issues with the Carbon poles. Given that it is in the same shape as the aluminum pole the comparison is relatively easy. I still don't understand the logic behind the aluminum pole other than cost cutting.

Simply by comparing two of the applicable material specifications we can see the carbon fiber is arguably better. First the strength of a material which is the force per unit area at failure, divided by its density. Any material that is strong and light has a favorable Strength/weight ratio would be good on a ski. Generally speaking Carbon fiber rates at 2457 kN.m/kg while aluminum rates at 222 kN.m/kg. We have better performance with a lighter piece of material.

Secondly we can look at the rigidity, which is resistance to bending or stretching, this would defiantly be applicable to a pole on a ski, Rigidity or stiffness of a material is measured by its Young Modulus and measures how much a material deflects under stress. Generally speaking a standard 70/30 fibre/matrix (Carbon fiber) will rate 2.5 times greater than aluminum in this respect.

I am not quite sure what CARBON is talking about but as far as I can tell, Carbon fiber will react with the aluminum matrix but only at temperatures above 500 °C

I wouldn't tell you to talk to someone who does composites for a living, talk to a material scientist (which I am not).

 

[CARBONX2]

Galvanic corrosion occurs when Aluminum is placed against Carbon, check any ski that has the ebox mounted directly against a carbon hull. The areas that touch corrode, most people won't see it until they separate the 2 parts.

I am not quite sure what CARBON is talking about but as far as I can tell, Carbon fiber will react with the aluminum matrix but only at temperatures above 500 °C

.

 

[Supajet]

That is interesting, but galvanic corrosion depends on the two metals being in electrical contact and immersed in an electrolyte. There is certainly no shortage of electrolyte for the ocean surf riders. But a simple layer of extra gel coating on the end of the tubes, plastic insulator or layer of fiberglass and /or paint on the pole parts would completely solve this problem. I don’t see it as a reason to abandon the idea. Maybe if I was laying up a circuit board, but the pole on a Jet Ski?

A Carbon fiber tube can weigh a third of an aluminum tube and still have the same or better strength characteristics; I also think it looks better. Carbon tubes are replacing aluminum in almost all generic applications in industries ranging from F1 and Aerospace down to Bicycles.

 

[linden]

i know the hill climber drag guys are doing cf swing arm now with al carrier bearing so im sure it can be done. if your looking to get weight down why not ti tubes. ive always wondered why there wasnt more ti parts in our sport where it seems every ounce counts to a lot of people

 

[#ZERO]

Can this factory make a set of carbon nanotubes?

I plan to launch a jet-ski into orbit so every ounce saved here on earth will payoff significantly once the destination is attained.

 

[Supajet]

Don't forget your helmet.

 

[shaunsteezy]

i know the hill climber drag guys are doing cf swing arm now with al carrier bearing so im sure it can be done. if your looking to get weight down why not ti tubes. ive always wondered why there wasnt more ti parts in our sport where it seems every ounce counts to a lot of people

Titanium makes the most sense to me because of its corosion resistance and strength to weight. If you want a lighter handle pole dont buy a rrp one anyways....

 

[harris414]

Can this factory make a set of carbon nanotubes?

I plan to launch a jet-ski into orbit so every ounce saved here on earth will payoff significantly once the destination is attained.

Now your talking!!! The local university I am working with on my hull project has a team I talked with doing some work for NASA using that type of technology for landing gear I think it was.... They have taken prepreg and braided it to form an open structure like you see in the bike below. Its the lightest strongest thing I have ever played with!!!

 

[RSKI]

Now your talking!!! The local university I am working with on my hull project has a team I talked with doing some work for NASA using that type of technology for landing gear I think it was.... They have taken prepreg and braided it to form an open structure like you see in the bike below. Its the lightest strongest thing I have ever played with!!!

View attachment 203097

I love the idea, but it looks like a cheese grater for your nuts, or in the case of a handlepole a cheese grater for your face.

 

[OptimaRacing]

Carbon Talon Hubs. Inner Carbon portion bonded to an outer billet aluminum section. I have personally used these with no failure. The ultimate in high end aftermarket wheel sets. How are they bonded? I know this is apples to oranges in regards to a telescoping handlepoles tubes & brackets, but still interesting that the technology to bond the two is available and not used in the performance watercraft market.