650/X-2 fabric/cloth help

[jules210]

Most of the info I have gathered from the forums, people are using 1208 & 1708 biax for building. I'm wondering if anyone has any better suggestions on what to use. As for finishing cloths/ fabrics I'm all ears to what you guys suggest.

I want this jet ski to last, plan on beating it. so it needs to be strong but weight is a concern of mine as it is a freestyle machine. looking for a fabric that is easy to wet out and conformable too. my layup will not be vacuumed bagged (first build) but I will be using bristle rollers and west systems epoxy resins (slow cure). planning to do my layup in two different steps being the outside first then reinforcing form the inside. I will need up to a 1/4 inch thickness in half the spots and the other half an 1/8th inch roughly. Any help on choosing the right fabrics/ cloth is greatly appreciated!

I was stoked on s-2 glass being that its both stronger and lighter; But when I went to pull the trigger I was informed that the weave (8 harness satin) is hard to get air out of. that it should really only be used when bagging, is this true?

any help is greatly appreciated I have everything ready for layup but no fabric. this has been hanging me up for awhile!

 

[Roseand]

What size motor are you putting into that...? It's going to need to be pretty big to be considered a "freestyle machine." No offense, I'm just curious what your goal is for this build. Once you remove that much original material it won't be easy to keep it lightweight if you're handlaying it all and expecting it to last.


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[Roseand]

Where in Wisconsin are you?

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[schicks]

similar work that I did to my 300 project.

http://www.x-h2o.com/index.php?threads/300sx-superjet-hull-build-done-theyre-never-done.154898/

Light weight is going to very hard to do with hand layups, I found that out.

I would recommend using the 1708 still, and laying each layer 45 degrees to each other for strength. I find that 1708 conforms to contour very well. Also, I used a light 5oz weave as a finishing layer. When 1708 dries, the stitching is a little rough that's why I used the 5 oz over it. Using wax paper to squeegee out excess resin works well after wetting out the glass. I also liked putting siran wrap on the glass after wetout and sticking it to the ski. Siran wrap pulls right off when it dries and iff you can put it down with limited wrinkles is gives a nice sandable surface. You could also use peel-ply. I used the peel ply to limit the amount of sanding you have to do between layers. The peel ply does not work well for a finish surface.

 

[schicks]

4 layers of 1708 will end up being pretty thick, and is about what I used in spots where I built up my own surface. And if you alter the direction of the weave, you really shouldn't need more layers than that.

 

[Quinc]

You have me worried about doing my hull with sglass now!

 

[jules210]

I just bought a 771 small pin with green head 170psi, 750 ebox with msd coil and cdi, Mikuni purple top 44mm sbn buckshot carbs, r&d intake manifold with boyseen reeds and cages, west coast mani, just looking for a pipe. I'm located in La Crosse, Wi. @Roseand

cool thanks for info @schicks definitely will take the advice on switching the angle of the thread when laying up good advice. how do you use wax paper to squeegee resin. I have bristle brush roller isn't that sufficient?

should I be considering vacuum bagging something like this, will it make that much more of a difference in strength and weight? I have accumulated three hauls from the end of last summer to now. so it definitely wont be my last build!! Maybe I should just invest in a setup early?

 

[Roseand]

I just bought a 771 small pin with green head 170psi, 750 ebox with msd coil and cdi, Mikuni purple top 44mm sbn buckshot carbs, r&d intake manifold with boyseen reeds and cages, west coast mani, just looking for a pipe. I'm located in La Crosse, Wi. @Roseand

cool thanks for info @schicks definitely will take the advice on switching the angle of the thread when laying up good advice. how do you use wax paper to squeegee resin. I have bristle brush roller isn't that sufficient?

should I be considering vacuum bagging something like this, will it make that much more of a difference in strength and weight? I have accumulated three hauls from the end of last summer to now. so it definitely wont be my last build!! Maybe I should just invest in a setup early?

Well what are you looking to do? Backflip, barrel roll, 360 spins, etc?

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[schicks]

you will learn as you go.

vacuum will reduce the amount of resin and air pockets and will ultimately lead to a stronger part. However, there is a lot of added cost for equip and materials to vac, and knowledge that goes with it.

When I glass, I put down a sheet of plastic on the work bench. Lay the sized/cut piece of fabric on the plastic and wet out one side with a chip brush, then flip it to the chop strand side and wet out that side. Once the fabric is fully wetted out, place the wax paper on the stitched side and squeegee out the excess resin. Then throw away the wax paper. I always wet out/paint the surface your sticking the glass to first so that it can tack up a little bit while your wetting out the glass. That helps the glass stick to the surface when your ready to put it in place, especially with contours. Once the glass is in the ski, I put siran wrap over it to help corners stick and also for the nicer surface finish when its dry.

your hand layup will be plenty strong, start off with that and work you way up to bagging.

 

[jules210]

Well what are you looking to do? Backflip, barrel roll, 360 spins, etc?

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yes I'm pretty sure that is what freestyle entails Not to be a dink but I'm not looking to answer a bunch of irrelevant questions, rather have my questions answered!!

 

[Roseand]

yes I'm pretty sure that is what freestyle entails Not to be a dink but I'm not looking to answer a bunch of irrelevant questions, rather have my questions answered!!

Well with that motor and hull it won't happen. But it could still be a fun project. Just really depends what your budget is.

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[jules210]

you will learn as you go.

vacuum will reduce the amount of resin and air pockets and will ultimately lead to a stronger part. However, there is a lot of added cost for equip and materials to vac, and knowledge that goes with it.

When I glass, I put down a sheet of plastic on the work bench. Lay the sized/cut piece of fabric on the plastic and wet out one side with a chip brush, then flip it to the chop strand side and wet out that side. Once the fabric is fully wetted out, place the wax paper on the stitched side and squeegee out the excess resin. Then throw away the wax paper. I always wet out/paint the surface your sticking the glass to first so that it can tack up a little bit while your wetting out the glass. That helps the glass stick to the surface when your ready to put it in place, especially with contours. Once the glass is in the ski, I put siran wrap over it to help corners stick and also for the nicer surface finish when its dry.

your hand layup will be plenty strong, start off with that and work you way up to bagging.

Cool that's why I was more leaning towards hand layup for my first build because of initial cost and the knowledge needed for all the extra "moving parts" in bagging. thanks for info that helps. how does the siran wrap help hold corner & what do you use in conjuncture with the wax paper to squeegee the resin? Also does the wax paper go on the cloth side or chop strand mat side of the biax??

 

[jules210]

Well with that motor and hull it won't happen. But it could still be a fun project. Just really depends what your budget is.

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thanks for your input. I'm not claiming anything and I don't want to derail this thread but the Mississippi has some big arse cruisers that throw some mean wakes. I guess I'll find out this summer.

 

[Roseand]

thanks for your input. I'm not claiming anything and I don't want to derail this thread but the Mississippi has some big arse cruisers that throw some mean wakes. I guess I'll find out this summer.

I've been on this Mississippi in LAX. There are wakes that are over head high. I know whatcha mean man!

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[schicks]

siran wrap just sticks to everything, and just helps keep everything down. You'll notice that corners don't like to stay down on contours, the siran wrap just helps to force it to stay down until it dries.

once you have the fabric fully wetted out. I lay a piece a wax paper on the cloth weave side and take a plastic bondo puddy blade and just squeeze out excess resin from the cloth. Make sure you squeegee in the direct of the weave though.

 

[jules210]

siran wrap just sticks to everything, and just helps keep everything down. You'll notice that corners don't like to stay down on contours, the siran wrap just helps to force it to stay down until it dries.

once you have the fabric fully wetted out. I lay a piece a wax paper on the cloth weave side and take a plastic bondo puddy blade and just squeeze out excess resin from the cloth. Make sure you squeegee in the direct of the weave though.

I like it

 

[Vumad]

Put down some plstic and layup some test panels. This will give you and idea of thickness and strength. 4x4" is plenty for a test panel. You can layup bigger or whatever you like to practice wetting out and rolling.

You layup is going to be different for every part of the hull you do. You dont want to just drop down 4 layers of 1708 everywhere. Do the smallest, least complex shapes first so you can build upon that practice as you do the build.

Dont listen yo people telling you your setup is too small. People flatwater roll stock superjets and roll 750 x2 with a pipe. If it runs good, well, theres lots of freeriding to enjoy on a budget.

 

[schicks]

your roller will work good when you lay the fabric into the ski. It will help you get all the air bubbles out. I also use the chip brush to work out air bubbles. Once you got in laid down how you want it, that's when you put siran wrap on the pesky spots or the whole thing if you want.

 

[Vumad]

Your first post says you have everything ready for a layup. If that hull looks anything like those pictures, you have a lot of work to do before you are ready to layup.

 

[jules210]

ya I am super pumped on my motor setup I think this ski will rip! I work at my parents car stereo shop so I have made a bunch of custom fiberglass boxes (have 6 eights in my double cab tacome, yes i still have all my seats). So I have a pretty solid idea on how to glass, I just haven't used cloth before as all of our boxes are made from chop strand mat and poly resin.

the info I'm chasing after is what cloth I should be using. I know everyone uses 1208 and 1708 but is there anything better. thoughts on s-2 glass as well specifics would be awesome.

I am ready for layup on the top of the ski (hood and top of nose). I want to get that all done and reinforced first so I can look up through the gapping hole on the bottom of the hull to make sure that the hood is sealing properly. then I will proceed to other parts of the ski @vamad

I have only received one answer on the intended reason this thread was started, from schicks! Again I am looking for answers on what kind of cloth I should be using.