Flow Control Valves vs. Water Injection Kits

[Big Kahuna]

you can run ECWI with a wetpipe. It does the same thing. It changes the tuning of the pipe at lower RPM's just like it will for a dry pipe. Your just cooling off the gasses making the motor think it has a longer pipe (More Bottom End).

 

[FlightPlanDan]

you can run ECWI with a wetpipe. It does the same thing. It changes the tuning of the pipe at lower RPM's just like it will for a dry pipe. Your just cooling off the gasses making the motor think it has a longer pipe (More Bottom End).

This is above my head. I thought it was all about "sound waves". Does cooling gasses change the sound waves? I can see how water in the pipe could change sound waves...making the pipe effectively shorter/longer. I've seen the enhanced performance that a b-pipe alone will give.
Maybe I just won't get it!
I'll have to book-up. Cause it seems too complicated to express in this forum!
I'm happy with my set-up. It never hurts to understand it!

 

[Hirschfelt]

I am running an msd water injection unit along with the FCV. There are many ECWI outthere. I would recommend getting a fully adjustable one so that you can set it up for the style of riding that you do. The msd is nice comes with the disc and cable to customize the water turning on and off and how much water you want to pass through the selinoid. The dip switch model sold with most drypipes is not able to get low enough rpms to fully utilize the advantages of a freestyle/lowend ported motor setup. I believe they turn on earliest at 3000 rpm. The ecwi works theoritically the exact same way as the tunable head pipe as far as wave length is concerned. Instead of using water pressure it is controlled electronically off the rpm's of the motor. You can get an extremely noticable difference in low end snap when it is set up properly.

 

[Big Kahuna]

This is above my head. I thought it was all about "sound waves". Does cooling gasses change the sound waves? I can see how water in the pipe could change sound waves...making the pipe effectively shorter/longer. I've seen the enhanced performance that a b-pipe alone will give.
Maybe I just won't get it!
I'll have to book-up. Cause it seems too complicated to express in this forum!
I'm happy with my set-up. It never hurts to understand it!

No, your on it. Cooling the exhaust does change the "Sound Wave". Or Sonic Wave to be more PC.

 

[waxhead]

water injection in a surf boat waste of time in my mind, something else to go wrong
flow control valve , if it makes you think you are going that much better then its working. I have found the money spent on fuel in the surf will make a bigger difference to your riding than a flow control valve

 

[Big Kahuna]

Yup, sand can and will get into the selinoid and stop it up, had that happen at a race once. Try racing with the water blowing full force into the pipe, could not figure out what was wrong and where my top end went!

 

[waxhead]

hahahaha yeah been there and had the same thing happen.
I took mine off for that reason. I just threw heaps of timing in and used fuel to cool it down low
more reliable

 

[Hirschfelt]

water injection in a surf boat waste of time in my mind, something else to go wrong
flow control valve , if it makes you think you are going that much better then its working. I have found the money spent on fuel in the surf will make a bigger difference to your riding than a flow control valve

Only thing Iwould worry about living in paradise is fuel, b pipe and brew. Keep it simple and have fun.

 

[waxhead]

yup you got it

 

[masterblaster]

heres the kicker,the ecwi works really good at getting better bottom end,but the solenoid is unreliable and would be even better at lower rpm ranges,the bpipe does ok at injecting water but no where near as good as a real spray bar at the right spot. was talking with a techy buddy about building this instead..But what really needs to happen for freeride power is the type of valve we are working on,that basically is a mechanical flow control valve working in reverse that cuts water off at certain pressure,rather than let it though at a certain pressure....the pressure will be relative to as low as rpm as desired.though the right spray bar this gives sick low end and still lets the ski rip through the midrange.best of both bottom and mid with out the worry of a solenoid craping out on you.He has built a prototype that is working well,should have something out soon.

 

[2XLR8]

A true functioning water injection system needs to work with the rpm of the engine and not the water pressure in the lines. The fact is with a mechanical water injection system the on-off points are going to be determined by the water pressure and not the rpm. With low pressure it will shut off later. If you get on it hard it will shut off instantly. Another thing is electronic modules control a low rpm off point. You could not do this with a mechanical pressure sensitive valve, this is important.

 

[WaveDemon]

A true functioning water injection system needs to work with the rpm of the engine and not the water pressure in the lines. The fact is with a mechanical water injection system the on-off points are going to be determined by the water pressure and not the rpm. With low pressure it will shut off later. If you get on it hard it will shut off instantly. Another thing is electronic modules control a low rpm off point. You could not do this with a mechanical pressure sensitive valve, this is important.

you CAN mechanically shut off the water at low RPM if you put a flow control BEFORE the head pipe/water injection.

 

[egbrig]

I've seen the injection valve Masterblaster is talking about. It was tried on a race boat and worked very well. Water pressure is related to rpm directly. I think production of that valve starts very soon, so I've heard.

 

[2XLR8]

Lets say the water is adjusted mechanically to shut off at say 5500 rpm. If you are accelerating at 1/3 throttle versus 3/4 throttle the off points are going to be way different. Water pressure is more relative to pump load than it is rpm. Where you tap for water and any water adjustments with restrictors or valves will change the off points as well and will need to readjust. With the electronic it is where you want it every single time. If you run filters in the lines to the ecwi there is no problems with sand getting the solenoid stuck. It is only if you don't clean the solenoid when you put the boat away for the winter that could stick the valve.
I guess if you are racing and you are always on full throttle you could tune it to work good until you change something that alters the water pressure.

 

[egbrig]

The guy who was running it in the race told me it worked very well in race conditions, which include constant rapid changes in rpm, white wash and rpm control. I have used MSD water injection and it worked very well until it didn't. Too expencive to replace. The thing I liked about what I heard was that its
simple, will be inexpencive and designed to run in salt water with little maintenance.

 

[masterblaster]

those are all the keys to its success,more often than not even in freeride it full throttle blips,no one is running around at partial throttle other than getting from point a to b and its not important to make power at these times. surfriders are never gona use one more PITA electronic thing to go bad.This is the answer that issue,if restrictors are used for winter than the pressure on the valve will need to be adjusted,well worth the trouble of not messing with more elecs that are in the way and fail.