Other Fuel injection discussion

Kawikazi

Don't follow my line.
Location
NRG, WV
I'm a little curious about fuel injection for my ski so I'm asking around for info on the pros & cons of this setup. As far as I know MRD is the only FI available so thats what I'm looking at getting. I have a few questions though.. I have never heard very much about this mod but what I have heard was all good. Smooth power increase, better response, more efficient resulting in less plug fouling and a reliable idle...When I think about FI I think about the difference between an old cold natured carburated v8 truck where you may be pumping the peddle to get it started or keep it idling compared to a brand new FI silverado with a maintenance free turn of the key reliability. My question is why arent we all using this?? You would think that this would be something we the 2 stroke scene would be experimenting more with.
I was browsing through a random atv magazine over at a friends house this past year and came across an article on a new FI system for the Yamaha banshee. The article mentioned that it gave the twin cylinder two stroke an incredible off idle power increase that was comparable to a four stroke. They mentioned being able to cruise and torq around before the powerband!! No more staying in the pipe to get up a hill or try to keep from fouling plugs. The final overview said the FI on the banshee gave the rider the best of both worlds 2 stroke top end scream only now with 4 stroke bottom end torque. And with all that additionally to their surprise the mod passed and corrected emission problems that originally, is what ended the market on the quad. And supposively yamaha is now talking about making this a factory change so that maybe in the future the quad will return to US(evidently yamaha is already offering these FI banshees in mexico).
Again why arent more of us running these systems? I would think that Kaw or Yam would have played with this more before discontinuing there two stroke machines. If any of yas can shoot me some feedback on FI systems on your machines I'd appreciate it.
 

Proformance1

Liquid Insanity
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Location
New York Crew
MRD is mechanical injection, big difference from the early 2000's DI on the skis. My SeaDoo and Polaris had mad bottom end hit to their normal carb cousins, and sipped 30-40% less fuel. They both lost top end speed, but that could be a number of things. The 800 polaris have a crappy computer that overheats, but if you could crack the code and remap it, that would be a great starting point cause its already for a 777 two cyl that goes into a lot of stand ups. Art at Full Spec went on and on about fuel injection etc with me one time. I wish I knew more
 
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There is a company in Perth who specialise in direct injection 2 stroke engines.. They do work for polaris, seadoo etc which make the 2 stroke much better from an emission / efficiency point of view

http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/aus...view_article&Section_id=1020&article_id=10041

If you want fuel injection it would be fairly easy to implement. I have had quite a bit to do with MegaSquirt, and there was a side project called Bare Bones, which was basically a tiny fuel only ECU (about 8cmx4cm; smaller than a CDI). That would work well.

The difficult bit is getting a small high pressure fuel pump, and setting up the electrical system to handle the extra load. The rest would be straight foward.

Andrew
 

jetski9010

Team RTYD
Location
Lancaster PA
If your looking for info or parts for the MRD systems talk to robert at jet ski mechanic. He has experience with this system and also has all the parts for them. Im still in the process of finishing my ski that I am going to run MRD on mine.
 
You guys will eventually do what all the others have done in the past / '' switch to carbs '' !! mechanical FI is no match for the fuel metering capabilities under all RPM"S and loads of a well tuned carbed ski . a well tuned CARB ski also starts INSTANTLY ,Idles PERFECTLY ,with the reliability of FI on a silverado !! besides another reason to stay carbs is if you dont take care of your ''carbs/ski'' and refresh them every couple of years your guarenteed to find parts where the motorheads are .. try that on the beach with MRD and you will FU a perfecty good vacation ! Mechanical FI disappeared from the surf world for a reason mainly subpar metering capabilities ,and electronic FI will never advance in our SURF field due to cost ....IMO
 
I really don't know why someone can't get a electronic system dialed in for reliable, trouble free performance. A friend of mine built his own fuel injection system for a 800 polaris snowmobile using a reprogramed computer out of some honda car. The system was SICK! The guy is a total mechanical genious, the thing was turboed and nitrous injected also! I know it took a while to get everything dialed in, but it was flat stupid! The sled was also hand built by him with cromolly tubing and carbon fiber! Like I said genious! Someone in the watercraft world has to be able to do this.
 
mechanical FI is no match for the fuel metering capabilities under all RPM"S and loads of a well tuned carbed ski .... and electronic FI will never advance in our SURF field due to cost ....IMO

I agree mechanical injection is rubbish, but I recon I could put together a basic EFI kit for the same as the cost of buying and rebuiling a set of carbies and buying an MSD/EPIC. (run both fuel and spark from the ECU). Obviously this doesn't include labour costs; it would much longer to develop the 1st FI kit.

The main headaches as I said would be finding a fuel pump and also getting the fuel delivery so the engine never got starved.

Andrew
 

D-Roc

I forgot!
i would like to read more about the EFI for a banshee. If yamaha brought back the sickest performance quad with updated suspension and EFI that would be very cool. they should probably make it a powervalve motor while they are at it.
 

waxhead

wannabe backflipper
Location
gold coast
You will need a surge tank to stop the ski running out of gas. Im sure you are aware of this im just thinking out loud on the kb.
If you could get a maf to work on the engine it would be so much better, there is however a massive neg pulse in the intake which will freak it out
 

Kawikazi

Don't follow my line.
Location
NRG, WV
Excellent feedback guys thanks for the input. Keep it coming!

Madscientist- I couldn't find anything for skis through motec but I've worked with those guys when I was on the BMW team. I'll give them a call today on lunch. They're wiring harnesses and data aq. Systems were flawless but did come with a ticket.
I didn't know that mrd was a mechanical injection. So scratch that. I'm def looking for true efi.
 

Schmidty721

someone turf my rails
Location
WI
I've been toying around with the idea of trying to get a system working. I do alot of fuel injection development and calibration work for my job on high performance v-twin motorcycles engines. I think I could incorporate a lot of our current setup on to a ski engine. It would be a dual bore throttle body setup with independent intake runners for each cylinder. Ignition & fuel would be controlled by the same ECM we use on the bikes. It would be an RPM vs hrottle position based system to start with. Anyone want to donate a complete 62t for prototype work haha!
 
Location
I
You can use also megasquirt. Also why jetski needs batteryless EFI? There is always battery because of starter. Microsquirt can be operated with small battery and it have also very small size. And good protection for water also. Price will allways be higher than good set of new aftermarket carbs. Microsquirt costs alone 400usd + sensors, throttle bodies, injectors, wiring etc. I think it can be easily more than 1000usd if you use new parts.

I have done some research to mount microsquirt to mine ski, but nothing happened yet. Maybe later. But it can be done. There is multiple projects in the internet.
 
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jetski9010

Team RTYD
Location
Lancaster PA
I know everyone always says with todays top aftermarket carbs there is no need for fuel injection on watercraft but I was always hoping that a big engine shop like x metal or someone like that would pop up one day and say they came up with a fuel injection setup for the 62T motor.
 
Kind of defeats the point since we already have to run a battery in the ski, but you got the right direction, thinking outside the box!
We could copy the snowmobiles and go pull start, just need good baffle/seal system to keep water out. I think it would work for a flatwater ski, would save 20lbs+ I'm guessing
 
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