Help Choosing Rickter Hull and Setup, XFR vs XFS vs Edge

[JKMike]

So I have been reading up on the XFR, as it is on my short list for hulls. I'm curious how an XFR's flatwater freestyle capability is any different than an XFS? My understanding is the hulls are identical with the short plate and sponsons removed from the XFR and the only difference is the extended tray. Is it just the weight difference from the extended tray or what?

 

[KMN]

XFR ( in fiberglass) is about 10 pounds heavier layup, plus weight of the rear sponsons. Rickter doesn't really make fiberglass XFS's anymore, unless special order. They kind of replaced the fiberglass XFS with the XFS Carbon core. I bet a XFR LT would be about the same weight as a fiberglass XFS.

 

[JKMike]

That would be sweet if the XFR LT is actually close to the weight of the XFS, assuming they were both glass. How do you think they would compare if they were both carbon core?

So with the extended ride plate and sponson on the XFR does it really improve the free riding and surf capability that much compared to an XFS? I'm mainly looking at the XFR (Glass or Carbon Core) in the hopes that it can give me the Flat Water capability of the XFS and the Freeride capability of the Edge, maybe not at the same time but if all it takes is a change in plate and sponsons, I'm fine with that. I realize that it might not ever be quite as good as one of the dedicated hulls for just Flat Water or Freeride, but I think I would be happy if it could at least give me a happy medium between the two extremes.

 

[2lick]

Man I wish I had the time to write the review I'd like of my XFR, to give back to the community!

I believe the hull is misunderstood and misrepresented even by some of the reps. For my ability, my goals, and style its perfect. An XFS would have been wrong, and Edge would have been wrong. The XFR has its spot for sure. When building a ski to "do it all" be honest with yourself about your goals, what you want most and are willing to sacrifice, it could be good or bad for you.

Send me a PM and phone number if you want a chat. I'd be happy to share what I know if it can help you spend those big dollars a bit better.

 

[Wetbuffalo]

So I have been reading up on the XFR, as it is on my short list for hulls. I'm curious how an XFR's flatwater freestyle capability is any different than an XFS? My understanding is the hulls are identical with the short plate and sponsons removed from the XFR and the only difference is the extended tray. Is it just the weight difference from the extended tray or what?

So from what I have heard/seen it’s the same exact bottom deck with added sponsons. The top deck does not have the reinforcement step that they had to add to keep the carbon XFS ones from cracking at the firewall. The XFR has 3 layers of extra glass in it. Where the XFR LT has 1 more and special reinforcement glass layers over the standard XFS. The tray is not extended rearward but the front firewall is moved 2 inches forward.

There was a XFR Carbon Core that was built on here that had to be reinforced right from the factory by the owner due to fear of cracking.

Nice skis for sure but like any Definitely try before you buy.

 

[JKMike]

I would deffinately like to try out an XFR for sure. I'm hoping I can find someone local with one who would be willing to let me try theres. While my SJ might not be that appealing to someone with a Rickter i do have a 450hp Seadoo RXT-X monster that does 90 mph to trade off for a test ride. Lol If not I'm deffinately gna make it down to one of the freeride events.

I have a buddy with an Edge that I have tried and I like the feel of it. Unfortunately I have only really been in the standup world for about a year. So while I can deffinately get a feel for those hulls freeriding characteristics, I'm not sure I could accurately judge their freestyle characteristics yet. Which is the main reason I want an AM hull. So I'm just trying to get as much info and opinions on the matter to help me make the decision.

My budy with the Edge is kind of discouraging me from focussing to much on flatwater. He prefers the surf and chasing boats mainly and says he gets board with flatwater. I dont see that being an issue for me though as the flatwater freestyle is kinda why I got into standups. So kinda looking for some other opinions.

That's good info to know about the cracking deffinately something I will be looking into further. If there are any XFR reinforcement threads yaw know about please post them up.

 

[2lick]

I would deffinately like to try out an XFR for sure. I'm hoping I can find someone local with one who would be willing to let me try theres. While my SJ might not be that appealing to someone with a Rickter i do have a 450hp Seadoo RXT-X monster that does 90 mph to trade off for a test ride. Lol If not I'm deffinately gna make it down to one of the freeride events.

I have a buddy with an Edge that I have tried and I like the feel of it. Unfortunately I have only really been in the standup world for about a year. So while I can deffinately get a feel for those hulls freeriding characteristics, I'm not sure I could accurately judge their freestyle characteristics yet. Which is the main reason I want an AM hull. So I'm just trying to get as much info and opinions on the matter to help me make the decision.

My budy with the Edge is kind of discouraging me from focussing to much on flatwater. He prefers the surf and chasing boats mainly and says he gets board with flatwater. I dont see that being an issue for me though as the flatwater freestyle is kinda why I got into standups. So kinda looking for some other opinions.

That's good info to know about the cracking deffinately something I will be looking into further. If there are any XFR reinforcement threads yaw know about please post them up.

Annapolis is about 2.5 hours from me. Your welcome to ride mine if you make the trip north to the Philly area.

 

[Big Kahuna]

Annapolis is about 2.5 hours from me. Your welcome to ride mine if you make the trip north to the Philly area.

That is a no brainer, Take Nick up on this offer. 1, you will get to ride one. 2. you will get to ride one of the cleanest built ski's around!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Brownie]

I have both of the skis mentioned, XFR-LT and an XFS carbon core. With sponsons on and a long rideplate the XFR carves really well for a short Hull but not as good as my wife's edge, no sponsons and short rideplate its basically an XFS with more room in the tray. I agree with 2lick that you need to really consider your goals and riding style. Also your setup is going to be a big factor, pump? Motor? Pole length? Rideplate? Keep in mind the XFS carbon core has the comp bottom so you have to use the $500 comp carbon intake grate. BK is right, make the 2.5hr trip and get a test ride. If I remember right @Jyzmbe did some extra reinforcing on his XFR carbon core maybe he can chime in on that.

 

[JKMike]

Yea I will deff be taking him up on both of his offers! Sent him a PM a few minutes ago.

 

[JKMike]

I have both of the skis mentioned, XFR-LT and an XFS carbon core. With sponsons on and a long rideplate the XFR carves really well for a short Hull but not as good as my wife's edge, no sponsons and short rideplate its basically an XFS with more room in the tray. I agree with 2lick that you need to really consider your goals and riding style. Also your setup is going to be a big factor, pump? Motor? Pole length? Rideplate? Keep in mind the XFS carbon core has the comp bottom so you have to use the $500 comp carbon intake grate. BK is right, make the 2.5hr trip and get a test ride. If I remember right @Jyzmbe did some extra reinforcing on his XFR carbon core maybe he can chime in on that.

It seems like your description of the XFR's handling characteristics/capabilities is pretty consistent with what I have been reading. Its not going to be quite as good for free riding as the edge but it will be a lot closer to the XFS for flat water.

This is certainly not a decision that I will be taking lightly. At a minimum of about $7k, this hull might well be the most expensive single component of a toy I have ever purchased, if you look at it as a single item. Then there is the additional $10 to +$15k that will end up getting sunk into this build over the next few years. I can tell yaw this though, I am extremely meticulous when it comes to researching and weighing the options when it comes to stuff like this. And I'm damn good at doing 95% of the work myself for all my custom builds, be it water or land. Some of these are totally unrelated but these are some of my other builds, just for reference. Plus now any Jeep guys know why I go by JKMike. lol



Sry got a little carried away there.

Back on topic, I am doing my best to try and take all my goals and my riding style or at least where I want to go with my riding style into consideration when choosing the hull. This will be my first AM hull build, but for me I anticipate spending around 50% of my time on flat water freestyle, 40% cruising/boat chasing and maybe 10% in the surf. My top two contenders right now are the XRF and EDGE. I am mainly leaning towards the XFR as some of my main goals are flat water flips and 360's with reasonable height and 2-3 trick combos if possible just as some basic examples. I will post up my current plan, as far as specs go, tomorrow and I'm hopping yaw can tell me if it's realistic for my goals.

 

[JKMike]

Here is my current plan for the rest of the setup. Unfortunately I can't afford to do everything at once so much of this will happen in steps.

Initially I will swap over as much as I can from my 96 SJ. So 701 with milled head running 185psi compression and mild porting, lightened flywheel, brand new Factory pipe w/ limited chamber and Jetworks flow control valve, JM waterbox, MSD enhancer, V-Force 2 Reed, ADA couplers, basically new midshaft assembly, tornado filters, recently rebuilt stock 38mm carbs, Cold Fusion mounts, and Thrust Trim and Throttle levers.

As for the pump and trim, I will be starting out with my Solas 144 Mag pump, a 9/15 hooker and a Thrust EZ-Flow pro trim setup.

With all of that said. The very first new part will be either the RRP CBX Carbon Handlepole or the RRP Lightweight Billet Handlepole. I kind of like the look of the Billet upper steering mount over the Carbon and I can always add the Carbon tubes later as they are pretty cheap. As for the length, it depends what feels best. I will start with the 26" and likely machine a set of temporary poles that I can play with the length until I find what works best for me. I will run a custom OVP steering system, which I am designing now and will be making this winter. I'm an engineer/machinist and I basically have my own machine shop and multiple CNC machines through my job. I am hopping I can leverage this to help keep the cost of this build down.

I will probably run my motor as is for a month or so. Then I am planning to either start off with an ET 967 and just rebuild my stock crank then eventually move up to a +10mil stroker and appropriate spacer to bring me up to the ET 1107, or just start with the 1107. As for what crank I will run then, the thread measuring the runout on the PHP crank has me a bit concerned about them but it seems like Crank Works is one of the best but most expensive. If anyone has a better/cheaper recommendation I am all ears. I have only been able to find limited reviews on cranks so still researching this.

Exhaust, I would like to stick with the Factory pipe until I can afford a PFP. I know this will hold the motor back but I gotta make sacrifices somewhere till I can afford the mods.

One thing I could really use help on is Carbs, not really sure how large they need to be and or which brands are best. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Still kind of a newb when it comes to carbureted motors but learning fast. I have heard from multiple people that these larger motors can be a pain to keep dialed in and they frequently require carb adjustments. I don't really mind having to deal with the constant tuning, If I have to. But if there are any carbs out there that are more consistent please let me know. I would like to only have to buy them once and I'm hopping I can run the same carb if I decide to start with the 967 and then go to a 1107.

For the pump, I am hopping I can stick with my Solas 144 and current Thrust Trim for at least a season. What do yaw think, would it be enough to progress with, then go bigger?

Electronics, going to stick with the enhancer for quite a season or two.

As for fuel, I want stick with 93 mostly but i'm sure I'll wana play with race fuel some time. Capacity, I have been playing around with the idea of running a rear tank and a small cart tank which I could pull out when I wanna do just flatwater. Can the XFS even fit a rear tank with the extended tray?

I think that sums most of it up, if I missed anything let me know. PLEASE CRITIQUE AWAY!!!

 

[Brownie]

My XFR is an almost identical build to what your planning to start with. I used my 14 superjet as a donor, 701 with all the bolt one and a solas 144 mag. I have the RRP billet lightweight pole on it with 20in carbon tubes and the ends adjust out about 2in with ovp steering. This ski is setup as a rec ski for me, comfortable and I can ride It all day. That being said the plan was always to go to a bigger motor and pump someday maybe a TPE964 and a 155 mag or something like that. Since I knew I was going to step up to a bigger pump at some point I installed a 155 pump shoe instead of a 144. I'd recommend laying out a plan of how you want the ski setup in the end so you can make sure all your mounting points don't interfere with each other like mounting ebox to the bulkhead and then switching from a oem tank to a rear mounted tank. As far as carbs go I would wait until you've decided on a motor and then talk with the builder and find out what they recommend on there setups. Your pump, pipe and electronics are going to hold a bigger motor back but you have to start somewhere, would be worth looking into things like an oem 155 pump and zeeltronic ignition both are pretty cost effective upgrades over what you have.

By the way I like your JK, I have one to

 

[JKMike]

Nice jeep to you too @Brownie!

You bring up some good points and a few more questions.

With the 155 shoe are you still able to run a 144 pump or did you just start with a 155? If you are able to run a 144 are there any mods that need to be done to get it to seal?

For the mounting points I'm assuming you are able to tell Rickter what you are planning on running and they will lay out the mounts accordingly? If not I have no issue putting my own in.

Your definitely right on some of my current mods holding a larger motor back, but like your said I gotta start somewhere. Part of me wonders if holding the motor back some could actually be beneficial for learning to help prevent me from developing any bad habits all the power could mask.

 

[Big Kahuna]

Mounting points are typically set up assuming you are running OEM Type Running gear. Waterbox, Battery Tray location. Gas Tank. ETC.

If your using a 155 shoe with a 144 pump, you may need to add some sealant to the rubber pump seal..... Toby sets up all of his T1 hulls with 155 pump shoes unless you say otherwise.

 

[Brownie]

I'm still using a 144 pump with the 155 shoe, you just need to make sure you have everything aligned properly when installing the shoe. As far as mounting points most rickters come with all the stock superjet mounts in place tank, battery, waterbox etc. My XFS carbon core came with all the mounts separate so I can decide what ones to use and since I went with a lay down pipe and rear mounted tank I didn't use most of them. If you plan to run a rear tank you need to find another spot for your electronics other then the bulkhead like the sidewall. If you know what your end plan is it can help you from drilling unnecessary holes in your expensive Hull.

Sorry if the thread is getting off topic

 

[JKMike]

I guess we did get a little off topic. I changed the title of the thread but if any of the admins want to move it that's cool.

Good to know on the mounts. I would be fine starting off with my electronics on the sidewall but I'm not sure if they would fit with my Factory Pipe. Unfortunately, I will have to redo the tank and exhaust mounts since I will be starting with stock tank and the Factory pipe and then making changes from there. But I'm pretty good with composites so it shouldn't be that bad.

 

[JKMike]

So when I was talking with 2lick the other day he brought up an interesting point regarding layup material choice for the XFR that I had yet to consider. We were discussing the possibility that the XFR was originally intended to be a heavier fiberglass layup and that the extra weight might actually be critical to ensuring the hull sinks deep enough to truly utilize the removable sponsons that seem to be key to the XFR's free riding capabilities. Up until that conversation I had been toying with the idea of either going with a Carbon Core Layup or even a Full Carbon layup, for the weight savings and improved flatwater performance. But if going that route will negatively affect its free riding capabilities I may need to rethink my layup material choice.

My question for those of you with one of these lighter layup XFR's or even better those that have ridden both is: Have you ever felt that the reduced weight is either preventing the sponsons from being utilized to their full potential or negatively affecting the hulls free riding capabilities?

 

[jcraigo]

Man I wish I had the time to write the review I'd like of my XFR, to give back to the community!

I believe the hull is misunderstood and misrepresented even by some of the reps. For my ability, my goals, and style its perfect. An XFS would have been wrong, and Edge would have been wrong. The XFR has its spot for sure. When building a ski to "do it all" be honest with yourself about your goals, what you want most and are willing to sacrifice, it could be good or bad for you.

Send me a PM and phone number if you want a chat. I'd be happy to share what I know if it can help you spend those big dollars a bit better.

Please call
Jon Craigo 608-558-2010

 

[petohorn]

So when I was talking with 2lick the other day he brought up an interesting point regarding layup material choice for the XFR that I had yet to consider. We were discussing the possibility that the XFR was originally intended to be a heavier fiberglass layup and that the extra weight might actually be critical to ensuring the hull sinks deep enough to truly utilize the removable sponsons that seem to be key to the XFR's free riding capabilities. Up until that conversation I had been toying with the idea of either going with a Carbon Core Layup or even a Full Carbon layup, for the weight savings and improved flatwater performance. But if going that route will negatively affect its free riding capabilities I may need to rethink my layup material choice.

My question for those of you with one of these lighter layup XFR's or even better those that have ridden both is: Have you ever felt that the reduced weight is either preventing the sponsons from being utilized to their full potential or negatively affecting the hulls free riding capabilities?

Hey JKMike,
how did you end this story with XFR. What did you finally decide? So what do you ride now, what setup? Please share your experiences. I am in the same dilemma as you.
Thanks in advance