Freestyle Hows my glass work look?

[icecoled007]

Alright, I am a foothold first.... glass work first too. mfg: Scary I know

I have been taking my time working super slow and have read about every thread about footholds on here.

I know all first timers to footholds usually use too much resin. I layed down my cloth and did the much talked about dry install (cloth down soak poke resin in with a brush). It was working pretty good. Took awhile to get all the cloth saturated properly. I then went back with a credit card and squeegeed (sp?) out excess resin. I also use my fingers with rubber gloves to work out air bubbles and excess resin. I also dabbed up big globs with a rag I had.

Only ran into a few minor issues. On the bottom I couldn't for the life of me remove some air bubbles. I think this was cased by the height difference of the footholds against the tray :censored:. Probably should of grinded the holds down a bit more for a smooth finish. Also had a few air bubbles with rivets that had minor bumps. These air bubbles were very small compared to the others.

My other problem is the 20 minute window I have to work with the resin ran out. My last two strips going on the send layer were difficult because the resin started to get thick.

All is all I think I am ok..... what do you guys think? I feel like I might be a tad on the dry side. I haven't started glassing the other side yet. :wavey:

 

[MANFISH66]

looks good. What kinda resin? what oz. cloth? S glass? E glass? How many layers?

 

[icecoled007]

Cloth: 8.7oz fiberglass cloth 3" width tapes (E-Glass)
Ressin: 635 thin epoxy resin system w/ 3:1 Ratio medium epoxy hardener (I shoulder need any thickening agent for glassing....correct?!?!?)
Layers: 2

I used the peanut butter thickened 635 to glue them in. I put a second layer of it to seal up all the rivets (sanding before, after, and in between)
I also put in 4LB 2 part expanding close cell foam (dont think I got it 100% in) but I injected it (in drilled hole) into the small open areas I could see behind my holds with a meat tube thingy. I also tried to "carve" out my old foam to get the snug fit when installing too.

I have some biaxial mat to go in between. Whats the best way to install this? Put down epoxy - mat - epoxy? Or just the dry fit again? Biaxial mat sure seems thick....

 

[MANFISH66]

Sounds good. And no the resin does not need to be "thick" at all....Just wet the area, lay the cloth, wet out the cloth and try to remove any excess so its not dripping a mess all over. The glass is what makes it strong not the amount of resin. Whats the oz. on your biax? E glass is not as strong as S glass and at only 2 layers I would personally do a layer or two more just to be safe.....

 

[icecoled007]

Thanks man when its dry should it feel smooth or bumpy?

 

[eeerieski]

I have no fiberglass skills yet but from what I've read, the driest you can make it will have the highest strength to weight ratio. Barely wet enough to remove all air is what you are shooting for.

 

[icecoled007]

Humm.... alright, I am worried its a little too dry...

anything I can do with the air bubbles that are now dry and soft :frown:

 

[Waternut]

You'll be fine with that. With all those rivets, the fiberlgass really just helps keep it all in place and help seal out water. You put sealant on the rivets and and between the holds and hull plus you added 2 layers fiberglass cloth. If your cloth is a really loose weave (you can see holes in it), I would add one more just to make sure your foam doesn't get wet but I don't think it's really necessary.

Dabbing up the resin isn't really necessary in this kind of scenario. Yes it saves weight but you're talking about an ounce or two on a heavy stock hull when dealing with something this small so the weight savings seem kinda pointless IMO. I've worked with composites both personally and in engineering design/repair and I say better too much resin than too little.

 

[JHD]

I don't think a few air bubbles are an issue. Sand them out and use a bondo blade to take the bubbles out of the wet glass out if you do another layer. When I was finihsed with the glass on mine I used expxy with a thickener to smooth everything out.

 

[Waternut]

There are 3 things you can do with air bubbles after they’ve dried. You can leave them (fine in this case), sand them out and replace the glass overlapping good fiberglass (best), or you can fill them with resin/thickener (heaviest).

 

[icecoled007]

Sweet, luckily the main air bubbles are at the bottom. There is a few very small ones towards the read on a rivet but no big deal. '

I think I will try to sand them a bit and lay the bi-axial mat over to seal it all up

 

[icecoled007]

Whats the oz. on your biax?

I got the "DBM 1708 Knytex Biaxial 38" width per yard" from UScomposites

 

[SJBrit]

Here's a tip: for more working time with your resin pour it out of your mixing container onto a flat sheet like a baking sheet or something similar. That helps keep it cool and slows down the curing dramatically. Epoxy cures fast in a container because it gets warm as it cures, which makes it cure faster, which makes it warmer, which.... you get the idea. You need to let it breath.

Alternatively put your mixing container on ice for the same effect. You can nestle it in the cooler right by your beer. Just don't poick up the wrong thing when you get thirsty....

 

[icecoled007]

Here's a tip: for more working time with your resin pour it out of your mixing container onto a flat sheet like a baking sheet or something similar. That helps keep it cool and slows down the curing dramatically. Epoxy cures fast in a container because it gets warm as it cures, which makes it cure faster, which makes it warmer, which.... you get the idea. You need to let it breath.

Alternatively put your mixing container on ice for the same effect. You can nestle it in the cooler right by your beer. Just don't poick up the wrong thing when you get thirsty....

This should be in the foothodl FAQ!

Just finished up. I was working in my 80 degree garage and I put the resin on ice. I was able to finish up and not run into that issue again.

 

[icecoled007]

Here is the final project. All in all I am happy, I feel like I could have gone without the biaxial mat. Better to be safe than sorry I suppose.

 

[Waternut]

Here's a tip: for more working time with your resin pour it out of your mixing container onto a flat sheet like a baking sheet or something similar. That helps keep it cool and slows down the curing dramatically. Epoxy cures fast in a container because it gets warm as it cures, which makes it cure faster, which makes it warmer, which.... you get the idea. You need to let it breath.

Alternatively put your mixing container on ice for the same effect. You can nestle it in the cooler right by your beer. Just don't poick up the wrong thing when you get thirsty....

First off, how big of a batch are you making to produce any kind of noticeable exothermic reaction? I've used 3:1 and 4:1 resins and have never felt any kind of heat even when applying it in 100° heat. I've felt polyester resin do that if you mix it wrong and use way too much hardener but never in epoxy resins. In fact, I typically mix all of my resin in a plastic dixie cup. Second, spreading out your resin on a flat sheet to give a longer pot life is only half true. This is true if it's cool where you're using it and gives the opposite effect if it's warmer. I would think this would be wasteful as well. Last, I would never recommend putting your resin anywhere near ice. Uncured resin can absorb moitsure which will decrease it's bond strength.

So the basic moral of the story is... Mix small batches and never mix more than you use in the designated pot life. 4:1 resin has the shortest pot life of 15 minutes which is a really long time to be working IMO.


edit: SJbrit... I'm sorry, I don't mean to call you out and I'm sure what you've done does work but I don't think it's the best advice for everyone.

 

[WFO Speedracer]

First off, how big of a batch are you making to produce any kind of noticeable exothermic reaction? I've used 3:1 and 4:1 resins and have never felt any kind of heat even when applying it in 100° heat. I've felt polyester resin do that if you mix it wrong and use way too much hardener but never in epoxy resins. In fact, I typically mix all of my resin in a plastic dixie cup. Second, spreading out your resin on a flat sheet to give a longer pot life is only half true. This is true if it's cool where you're using it and gives the opposite effect if it's warmer. I would think this would be wasteful as well. Last, I would never recommend putting your resin anywhere near ice. Uncured resin can absorb moitsure which will decrease it's bond strength.

So the basic moral of the story is... Mix small batches and never mix more than you use in the designated pot life. 4:1 resin has the shortest pot life of 15 minutes which is a really long time to be working IMO.


edit: SJbrit... I'm sorry, I don't mean to call you out and I'm sure what you've done does work but I don't think it's the best advice for everyone.

Everything SJ Brit said is spot on and legit, resins are exothermic, which means that by combining the two components a chemical reaction is formed, this chemical reaction creates heat for the mixed resin to cure, the more resin you mix at a time, the more heat is produced, yes you can mix in small batches but sometimes that is not the way to go. Spreading the epoxy out thinly as Adrain suggested gives you longer working life as does cooling the resin with ice, many instructional videos recommend exactly what Adrain suggested, these videos are put out by people who make the epoxy resins. What I have posted is backed up by many years of working with epoxy resins in the boat repair industry on customers $50,000.00 + boats and on personal watercraft

EDIT: I hate to call anyone out but when I see them boldly post misinformation as if it were fact I will do so, thanks

BTW , your glass work looks marvelous

 

[TITAN]

I'm not an expert but I ran an aircraft fab shop for two years so i got pretty familiar with composite repairs....all the advice.....
Waternut is on point! Good and accurate advice

The only thing I would throw in this application is that..... Don't try to make it look pretty, its gonna be covered anyway. Your going for strength so you can benefit from a stepped and layered lay up with it....it looks good though

I also agree with waternut, i would rather have more resin than not enough...just try to minimize bubbles and pockets. in a perfect world we would vacuum seal it

 

[SJBrit]

First off, how big of a batch are you making to produce any kind of noticeable exothermic reaction? I've used 3:1 and 4:1 resins and have never felt any kind of heat even when applying it in 100° heat. I've felt polyester resin do that if you mix it wrong and use way too much hardener but never in epoxy resins. In fact, I typically mix all of my resin in a plastic dixie cup. Second, spreading out your resin on a flat sheet to give a longer pot life is only half true. This is true if it's cool where you're using it and gives the opposite effect if it's warmer. I would think this would be wasteful as well. Last, I would never recommend putting your resin anywhere near ice. Uncured resin can absorb moitsure which will decrease it's bond strength.

So the basic moral of the story is... Mix small batches and never mix more than you use in the designated pot life. 4:1 resin has the shortest pot life of 15 minutes which is a really long time to be working IMO.


edit: SJbrit... I'm sorry, I don't mean to call you out and I'm sure what you've done does work but I don't think it's the best advice for everyone.

No worries: discussion is good. But I absolutely gurantee that epoxy will cure slower if you keep it cooler. And spreading it thin increases the surface area to volume ratio which helps it to stay cooler.

Edit: as long as the outside air is cooler that the temperature of the resin as it starts to cure. So yes, you have a point there.

 

[SJBrit]

BTW Icecoled - looks like you did a really nice job there.