I Need Help! Electrical Issues

[x-jetter]

I have no idea where to go next. my starter froze up on me so i got a new one today and i'm still having problems. with the plugs out, the motor spins crazy fast. however, as soon as i put my fingers over the hole, the starter dies out. now i know what you're thinking, bad battery or weak starter. i tried two different batteries and a jump box with the same results. i got the starter from mile9c1 and he said it's only been used a couple times, and it looks brand new. i also did the 2x4 wood burning test with it and it cut through it like a saw. so i know it isn't the starter or battery. the only other thing it could be is the relay, so i replaced that too. still the same issue. i'm not really sure what else to check, could it possibly be the battery cables? i sanded down all the eyelets on every cord and it's still not working. i always thought if the cables were bad that nothing at all would happen. my motor's compression is a little higher than normal too (like 190-200 range). is there too much compression or something. it really sounds completely fine when the plugs are off and you wouldn't think there was anything wrong with it.

 

[Mile9c1]

Where's your ground hooked to?

That starter was actually spinning a 230psi engine when I last tested it :cool2:

 

[Mile9c1]

Can you measure the resistance of your cables? ALso, check the connections inside the electric box. Exp. the 2 grounding posts.

 

[Mile9c1]

Your SX-R's looking better and better isn't it?

 

[waxhead]

bad earth of stuffed solenoid
the starter is not getting the power to it
and its causing the starter to have no torque
bridge the terminals on the starter solenoid
and then see what happens

 

[waxhead]

opps re red it you have done that
ok well look for bad power leads and earth leads
there isnt to much else it can be

 

[SuperJETT]

Ok, here's the list:

• Battery - should be 12.7vdc fully charged. 12.5vdc is about 50% discharged.
• cable from battery to solenoid - connections are clean, cable is not corroded.
• solenoid - hard to really check because you can't open them up and inspect the contacts, needs to be close to zero ohms across the contacts, and when hooked up and the starter is running, the voltage drop across the contacts should be .5vdc or less from what I remember.
• cable from solenoid to starter - same as above.
• starter - change out with a known good one.
• ground cable from starter bolt to battery - same as above.

The general idea is the 12vdc from the battery needs to be dropped across the starter and not across a bad connection. A bad connection (high resistance) will drop voltage when current flows through it, lessening the voltage at the starter which drops the current and torque.

That's the basic version without getting too electrical.

 

[x-jetter]

Where's your ground hooked to?

That starter was actually spinning a 230psi engine when I last tested it :cool2:

the ground is hooked to the top bolt that secures the starter to the case, is it supposed to be somewhere else?

yea i have to admit, i was getting ready to send you a nasty pm thinking that the starter was bad, but i grinded it on some wood and it just smoked the hell out of it.

 

[x-jetter]

Can you measure the resistance of your cables? ALso, check the connections inside the electric box. Exp. the 2 grounding posts.

how do you measure the resistance? i'm assuming that since i don't even know what resistance means, i probably can't measure it.:Banane01:

 

[x-jetter]

bad earth of stuffed solenoid
the starter is not getting the power to it
and its causing the starter to have no torque
bridge the terminals on the starter solenoid
and then see what happens

when i bridge the terminals, what should happen? the relay i replaced mine with isn't brand new, it's off my buddies 2001 ski, but it was in a lot better shape cosmetically than mine.

 

[x-jetter]

Ok, here's the list:

• Battery - should be 12.7vdc fully charged. 12.5vdc is about 50% discharged.
• cable from battery to solenoid - connections are clean, cable is not corroded.
• solenoid - hard to really check because you can't open them up and inspect the contacts, needs to be close to zero ohms across the contacts, and when hooked up and the starter is running, the voltage drop across the contacts should be .5vdc or less from what I remember.
• cable from solenoid to starter - same as above.
• starter - change out with a known good one.
• ground cable from starter bolt to battery - same as above.

The general idea is the 12vdc from the battery needs to be dropped across the starter and not across a bad connection. A bad connection (high resistance) will drop voltage when current flows through it, lessening the voltage at the starter which drops the current and torque.

That's the basic version without getting too electrical.

how do i measure ohms? and what does "across the contacts" mean. forgive me, i'm extremely electrically challenged.:sneaky:

 

[SuperJETT]

Ok, quick electrical lesson.

Voltage is potential, like water pressure. Current is the electrical flow, like water flowing through pipes. Resistance is exactly that, something that resists current flow, like a water valve that is barely open.

The only resistance you want in the circuit from battery to starter and back to battery is the starter itself. If the contacts inside the solenoid are messed up, they will resist current flow and the starter won't spin as well.

Resistance shows up as a voltage drop while current is flowing, so you can take a voltmeter and attach it to the 2 posts on the solenoid that the battery and starter cables attach to, crank the engine and measure the voltage drop. If it's over like .5vdc, you need to change out the solenoid probably.

Have you tried jumping across those posts with a screwdriver yet? That bypasses the solenoid completely and as long as your battery, starter, and cables are good the engine should spin.

 

[x-jetter]

ok cool thanks. i haven't tried the screwdriver thing yet, but i think i found the problem. i didn't think it was possible, but it looks like my battery, my sxr's battery (never removed or charged since 2003), and my jumper box are ALL bad/dead. i started charging the jump box around 6 tonight, then went out to try to clean all the contacts and try to start it again. this time it still didn't have as strong of a start as it should of, but it was able to turn over enough to start it up. :arms: so it looks like my 2 batteries were dead and the jump box was just weak. i can't believe i spent this much time on this today for just a bad battery. the ironic thing here is that i was so sure it wasn't the battery, because the sxr battery would turn over the sxr but not the x-jet. i kind of forgot there was like a 60 psi difference in compression between the two :banghead:

i'm a little pissed though because this is my 2nd odyssey battery this year (one tank of gas) and it's bad again!:bs2:

 

[SUPERTUNE]

i'm a little pissed though because this is my 2nd odyssey battery this year (one tank of gas) and it's bad again!:bs2:

Make sure you check over the charging system... sounds like maybe not charging right! Odyessey batteries work very well on superjets, even over 230 cranking lbs on any of my motors.

 

[keefer]

The Odyssey is a AGM or dry type battery. I have a Deka/Magna Power AGM and it is rated at 275 CCA. These batteries are great for PWCs and should last for years if taken care of properly. Do a Google search for AGM battries and read up on the info you find. You should never overcharge a AGM battery, if you ever let it get hot or let it vent then you are killing the battery. I think the maximum charge voltage is 14.2 no matter what. You should only use a temperature compensated or digital type battery charger that has a AGM setting on it. If you just stick it on an old style charger or if your ski's charging system is faulty then you will kill the battery in a short amount of time. Don't keep buying $90 batteries, figure out what is wrong and fix it..

 

[x-jetter]

yea i've heard nothing but good things from people on here about them. however, the dealer here that sells them has nothing but bad things to say about them and says they replace them all the time for people under warranty. i'm beginning to think that maybe the service department there is putting them together wrong or doing something to them to make them suck.

 

[x-jetter]

The Odyssey is a AGM or dry type battery. I have a Deka/Magna Power AGM and it is rated at 275 CCA. These batteries are great for PWCs and should last for years if taken care of properly. Do a Google search for AGM battries and read up on the info you find. You should never overcharge a AGM battery, if you ever let it get hot or let it vent then you are killing the battery. I think the maximum charge voltage is 14.2 no matter what. You should only use a temperature compensated or digital type battery charger that has a AGM setting on it. If you just stick it on an old style charger or if your ski's charging system is faulty then you will kill the battery in a short amount of time. Don't keep buying $90 batteries, figure out what is wrong and fix it..

my charger is kind of old, maybe i should get a new one. luckily the dealer keeps replacing them for me since it's been under a year.

 

[keefer]

Check out this website for East Penn manufacturing. They make the Deka and Magna Power batteries. They only show the Deka but you can find the Magna Power from several online vendors for around $60-$70 new. It is exactly the same battery. I got mine from a friend for a good price but he just deals in overruns and does not always have them. You should not have to charge it very often unless you let it sit for several months unless you are running total loss ignition. Have someone check the charging on your boat, it might be a bad rectifier / regulator that is cooking your battery.

http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/products/small_engine_power.html

The ETX16 is the one that fits most skis.. Good luck.

 

[Mile9c1]

So you just had a dead battery? Is your old starter good?

You need a digital multi meter if you want to check voltage/current/resistance on components. You can probably find a good one for around $100, they're nice to have.

 

[crammit442]

ok cool thanks. i haven't tried the screwdriver thing yet, but i think i found the problem. i didn't think it was possible, but it looks like my battery, my sxr's battery (never removed or charged since 2003), and my jumper box are ALL bad/dead. i started charging the jump box around 6 tonight, then went out to try to clean all the contacts and try to start it again. this time it still didn't have as strong of a start as it should of, but it was able to turn over enough to start it up. :arms: so it looks like my 2 batteries were dead and the jump box was just weak. i can't believe i spent this much time on this today for just a bad battery. the ironic thing here is that i was so sure it wasn't the battery, because the sxr battery would turn over the sxr but not the x-jet. i kind of forgot there was like a 60 psi difference in compression between the two :banghead:

i'm a little pissed though because this is my 2nd odyssey battery this year (one tank of gas) and it's bad again!:bs2:

I experienced the same thing and have switched to Jetworks batteries. They have a MUCH lower failure rate(and longer life per charge) than Odyddey. A KB-35 charged with a Battery Tender will last for years and years. Try one.:biggthumpup:

Charles

www.jetworks.net