I Need Help! Electrical Issues
- Thread starter x-jetter
- Start date
definately loose the POS odyssey battery. i dont know why everyone makes such a big deal out of them. theyre crap. must just be the cool name that fools people.
- Location
- Clarklake, Michigan
Mile9c1 said:
no my old starter completely locked up. i'm still not quite sure why that happened. it was pretty rusted inside though so it was probably just it's time.
crammit, i tried a jetworks battery before on my 750 and it never held a charge, but i'm thinking that my 750 maybe was the problem.:biggrin: i plan on going to jetworks, but as long as the dealer here keeps throwing free odysseys at me i'm just gonna roll with it. i am going to get myself a battery tender though.
x-jetter said:
NOOOOO! gel batteries do not mix well with battery tenders (low amperage charging). youll cook it in no time. the oddysseys require a higher amperage charge, i have found.
What I said earlier....
"I think the maximum charge voltage is 14.2 no matter what. You should only use a temperature compensated or digital type battery charger that has a AGM setting on it. If you just stick it on an old style charger or if your ski's charging system is faulty then you will kill the battery in a short amount of time. Don't keep buying $90 batteries, figure out what is wrong and fix it.."
To obtain "high" current you would have to have a high voltage to push that current into the battery, that is if Ohms Law still applies. If you read the data on Gel and AGM batteries from their manufacturers they recommend a specfic type of charger that will send the best voltage / current to the battery depending on air temperature and existing charge. This is not black magic, just a new recombinant battery technology that requires a more precise charging method.. Personally I will not spend $90 - $100 on a damn battery, You can find a decent quality AGM battery from an online battery house for around $60-$70 shipped and it will last for years. I would rather buy 2 $60 batteries in 6 years than an overrated $90 unit every so often. Am I making sense or just talking gibberish..:banghead: :banghead: :biggrin:
"I think the maximum charge voltage is 14.2 no matter what. You should only use a temperature compensated or digital type battery charger that has a AGM setting on it. If you just stick it on an old style charger or if your ski's charging system is faulty then you will kill the battery in a short amount of time. Don't keep buying $90 batteries, figure out what is wrong and fix it.."
To obtain "high" current you would have to have a high voltage to push that current into the battery, that is if Ohms Law still applies. If you read the data on Gel and AGM batteries from their manufacturers they recommend a specfic type of charger that will send the best voltage / current to the battery depending on air temperature and existing charge. This is not black magic, just a new recombinant battery technology that requires a more precise charging method.. Personally I will not spend $90 - $100 on a damn battery, You can find a decent quality AGM battery from an online battery house for around $60-$70 shipped and it will last for years. I would rather buy 2 $60 batteries in 6 years than an overrated $90 unit every so often. Am I making sense or just talking gibberish..:banghead: :banghead: :biggrin:
crammit442
makin' legs
- Location
- here
sflsurfrider said:
Did you mean to say AGM type batteries? If so, I agree. Bettery tender works well with gel, but NOT AGM.
Charles
crammit442 said:
im speaking only from others' experiences. i know of a few people that said they toasted their odysseys on a battery tender. ive heard too many negatives (vs positives.... no pun intended) about odysseys both online and in person. ive never used one and from everything i hear, i dont think i would want to.
i found some related info online, so take it with a grain of saltaway:
http://www.rversonline.org/ArtAGM.html
IMPORTANT NOTE ABOUT THE SUITABILITY OF
ABSORPTIVE GLASS MAT (AGM) AND
GELLED ELECTROLYTE BATTERIES
IN RV'S
That First Important Step
There is a lot of interest in high-tech batteries these days. While Valve Regulated Batteries possess many traits and characteristics that seemingly make them a desirable replacement for standard (flooded) lead acid batteries, care must be taken to insure that they are not subjected to environmental and operational abuse that would dramatically shorten their life span. Valve regulated batteries are expensive, sometimes double or even treble the cost of standard RV deep-cycle batteries.
CHARGING VOLTAGE VALUE IS CRITICAL
AGM and Gelled batteries require a charging voltage that does not exceed 14.00 volts (summer temperatures may require even lower voltages). Unfortunately almost all automotive charging systems have a permanently fixed set point voltage that exceeds 14.00 and this spells trouble. Subjecting the batteries to (commonly found) 14.6 volts for a prolonged period will eventually destroy them. Pusher diesel motorhomes normally use truck-type alternators and voltage regulators and most have internal set screws which can be fine-tuned (To lower the voltage set point). Automobiles (pickup trucks) and standard motorhome charging systems can be modified to accept an exterior adjustable voltage regulator. Your local automotive electrical rebuild shop can be a lifesaver if you elect to go that route. For your edification, 14.05 volts is my personal "upper limit" for charging valve regulated batteries.
THERMAL RUNAWAY
The name "thermal runaway" sounds ominous and when it happens to an Absorptive Glass Mat battery the results can be dramatic. A curious electro chemical reaction can take place inside an "AGM" battery if it is overheated while being charged. The phenomenon can be the result of too high a charging voltage, which will overheat any battery, too high an environmental temperature or a combination of both elements. Instead of tapering off, the charging current actually increases as the battery temperature increases. In extreme cases the electrolyte and binder material can be forcibly ejected from the battery vents. Obviously the battery will be destroyed. The point here is to pay attention to the battery's location and charging voltage limit.
MODERATE TEMPERATURE ENVIRONMENT
Both gelled electrolyte and AGM batteries insist on being located in an environment well away from high underhood engine or radiator temperatures. As a matter of fact the manufacturers of these types of batteries insist that all charging must cease altogether if the core of the battery reaches one hundred twenty degrees Fahrenheit. This point becomes critical in some pusher diesel bus applications that fit the house batteries in the path of radiator exhaust heat!
DON'T FORGET THOSE "OTHER" CHARGING SOURCES
When fitting valve regulated batteries to an RV care must be exercised to insure that the vehicle converter or battery charge finishing voltage does not exceed the 14.00 Volt limit. Solar voltaic charging systems must have a voltage regulator (commonly referred to as a "controller"). Auxiliary generators with integral charging systems must have their charging systems adjusted or defeated. And finally the owner of the Valve Regulated Battery must understand that even one unsupervised service station "quick-charge" will destroy even the best maintained gelled or AGM battery.
http://www.rversonline.org/ArtAGM.html
IMPORTANT NOTE ABOUT THE SUITABILITY OF
ABSORPTIVE GLASS MAT (AGM) AND
GELLED ELECTROLYTE BATTERIES
IN RV'S
That First Important Step
There is a lot of interest in high-tech batteries these days. While Valve Regulated Batteries possess many traits and characteristics that seemingly make them a desirable replacement for standard (flooded) lead acid batteries, care must be taken to insure that they are not subjected to environmental and operational abuse that would dramatically shorten their life span. Valve regulated batteries are expensive, sometimes double or even treble the cost of standard RV deep-cycle batteries.
CHARGING VOLTAGE VALUE IS CRITICAL
AGM and Gelled batteries require a charging voltage that does not exceed 14.00 volts (summer temperatures may require even lower voltages). Unfortunately almost all automotive charging systems have a permanently fixed set point voltage that exceeds 14.00 and this spells trouble. Subjecting the batteries to (commonly found) 14.6 volts for a prolonged period will eventually destroy them. Pusher diesel motorhomes normally use truck-type alternators and voltage regulators and most have internal set screws which can be fine-tuned (To lower the voltage set point). Automobiles (pickup trucks) and standard motorhome charging systems can be modified to accept an exterior adjustable voltage regulator. Your local automotive electrical rebuild shop can be a lifesaver if you elect to go that route. For your edification, 14.05 volts is my personal "upper limit" for charging valve regulated batteries.
THERMAL RUNAWAY
The name "thermal runaway" sounds ominous and when it happens to an Absorptive Glass Mat battery the results can be dramatic. A curious electro chemical reaction can take place inside an "AGM" battery if it is overheated while being charged. The phenomenon can be the result of too high a charging voltage, which will overheat any battery, too high an environmental temperature or a combination of both elements. Instead of tapering off, the charging current actually increases as the battery temperature increases. In extreme cases the electrolyte and binder material can be forcibly ejected from the battery vents. Obviously the battery will be destroyed. The point here is to pay attention to the battery's location and charging voltage limit.
MODERATE TEMPERATURE ENVIRONMENT
Both gelled electrolyte and AGM batteries insist on being located in an environment well away from high underhood engine or radiator temperatures. As a matter of fact the manufacturers of these types of batteries insist that all charging must cease altogether if the core of the battery reaches one hundred twenty degrees Fahrenheit. This point becomes critical in some pusher diesel bus applications that fit the house batteries in the path of radiator exhaust heat!
DON'T FORGET THOSE "OTHER" CHARGING SOURCES
When fitting valve regulated batteries to an RV care must be exercised to insure that the vehicle converter or battery charge finishing voltage does not exceed the 14.00 Volt limit. Solar voltaic charging systems must have a voltage regulator (commonly referred to as a "controller"). Auxiliary generators with integral charging systems must have their charging systems adjusted or defeated. And finally the owner of the Valve Regulated Battery must understand that even one unsupervised service station "quick-charge" will destroy even the best maintained gelled or AGM battery.
- Location
- Clarklake, Michigan
i'm confused. i just bought a "battery tender Plus!" and it says on the back that it will correctly charge and maintain any type of lead-acid battery, AGM, sealed calcium, or gel battery. i think my battery may be bad anyways, because the battery tender showed a full charge right when i hooked it up, but the starter is still clunking before it spins the motor (it does start it though, thank god) in any case, i'll probably just continue to use the crappy batteries i have around here and upgrade to a jetworks next year.
keefer said:
You don't have to have high voltage. Battery chargers have adjustable current sources in them that just push a fixed current through the load. (BAD for Oddyssey!!!)
The voltage across the terminals will depend on the impedance of the battery, but in MOST cases, you will see a high voltage, you are correct. And again, that's bad for the Oddyssey. That's why a fixed voltage charger with self-adjusting current is much better.
My point exactly. Ohms law dictates how much current will flow through a given circuit "I=E/R". When I said high voltage I meant higher than the maximum recommended voltage for the AGM or Gel batteries. It is my understanding of the new type chargers that they will initially charge with a higher current then adjust it accordingly depending on battery type, temperature, etc. I think the old style battery tenders just have the float voltage set too high, thus continually pushing current to the battery and damaging it. Probably around 14.6 or 14.8 which is enough to cook the AGM or Gel if left connected for very long.
SUPERTUNE
Race Gas Rules
- Location
- Clearwater Fl.
I also know that the Battery Tender Plus does come in 2 different part #'s, one for flooded lead acid and one for the AGM, I have been using the std charger on the Odyssey battery with no problem. I love the Decka AGM for just about all the jetski's, But when you just paid big bucks for your new WF hull to save lbs. I use the Odyssey one as their much smaller and lighter than the Decka's!
- Location
- Clarklake, Michigan
well now i'm not sure if my battery tender is working properly. every battery i've hooked up to it says it's fully charged. even one that's obviously dead?