Surfriding Ignition preferences
- Thread starter KTM434
- Start date
waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
I have used a factory fire, advent, epic and was also doing my own ignition which was a rebadged hpi for a while. Im back to using an msd enhancer.
The superjet stator is very hard on digital ignitions and I have had limitied success with any of them.
I even depotted an msd and a stock cdi and sent them off to see if I could get the curve changed but that was a dead end.
Some times they go some times they dont. You may get lucky chances are you will not.
Msd would be my suggestion
The superjet stator is very hard on digital ignitions and I have had limitied success with any of them.
I even depotted an msd and a stock cdi and sent them off to see if I could get the curve changed but that was a dead end.
Some times they go some times they dont. You may get lucky chances are you will not.
Msd would be my suggestion
Last edited:
skinnyman
YOU CANT RENT MY SKI
- Location
- Dallas/ToyBox
Here is what I have run
Advent on a 5mm Able worked for two weeks then Started to drain the battery really fast Sent it back got a new one ran for 6 months then Same BS Got another one.Gave it to a friend lasted 4 months before it took a crap I do have a friend who has had one a race sxr for like 4 yrs no issues
Enhancer IMHO waste of time do a rev limiter mod on a stocker and advance the timing
Epic ran it for a year no issues with it per say but had stator issues with it
replaced the stator with a new OEM and all was good Here is the rub by the time you get a new stator and epic and Fly wheel you buy a flame The way a industry guy explained it Epic
Msd Tl ran in salt and fresh no issues just had to replace a few wires every once in a while 70% fresh
Flame is what im running now 70 fresh 30 salt I did have a brain start blowing a fuse Sent it to ATP Chris sent me a new one no other issues Easy to set up and change curves Flame is a pure digital system Epic is not
Advent on a 5mm Able worked for two weeks then Started to drain the battery really fast Sent it back got a new one ran for 6 months then Same BS Got another one.Gave it to a friend lasted 4 months before it took a crap I do have a friend who has had one a race sxr for like 4 yrs no issues
Enhancer IMHO waste of time do a rev limiter mod on a stocker and advance the timing
Epic ran it for a year no issues with it per say but had stator issues with it
replaced the stator with a new OEM and all was good Here is the rub by the time you get a new stator and epic and Fly wheel you buy a flame The way a industry guy explained it Epic
Msd Tl ran in salt and fresh no issues just had to replace a few wires every once in a while 70% fresh
Flame is what im running now 70 fresh 30 salt I did have a brain start blowing a fuse Sent it to ATP Chris sent me a new one no other issues Easy to set up and change curves Flame is a pure digital system Epic is not
WILKEY
SO FAR CHANGE SUCKS!!!!!!
I like the epic. I had some issues with it with the battery and some cables that were crusty. But other than that I have been completely impressed with it. U should take steve up on that offer dude.
- Location
- Stevensville, MD
My experience:
MSD Enhancer in my Blaster for 15 years, been great.
MSD Enhancer in my Superfreak, lasted 45 minutes.
Stock with Limiter removed - hard to beat, but can't add timing or remove it up top.
Epic - No Experience
Advent - I bought a new unit, but it had been sitting on the shelf forever. It went bad a few rides in but it's being warrantied. Greg has been a very stand up guy and I appreciate what he's doing to help me out. Right now I run my stocker in the meantime with the limiter removed.
I would like someone to explain to me how these aftermarket ignitions, using the SAME stator are claiming to give more spark energy? With the exception of the Advent that uses the battery, all of these ignitions use the same stator, am I in the wrong or is there some kind of magic that produces more spark? The only advantage I see in the enhancer is the timing retard, the curve isn't different enough to notice a difference IMO. The epic is nice because you can change your curve. IMO the Advent is the only ignition that hits the two main points for me, spark and the ability to program a curve.
I found a big improvement upgrading my coils, even with the stock ignition. I'm running outboard engine coils stuffed in my stock ebox and they are nasty little buggers. They cured issues I was having in regards to breaking up all over the place due to lack of spark and allowed me to open up my plug gap. With stock and JSS coils I was killing the plugs and having to keep them gapped down around .024". Just my experiences, seems like everyones are a little different in this area.
Ed
MSD Enhancer in my Blaster for 15 years, been great.
MSD Enhancer in my Superfreak, lasted 45 minutes.
Stock with Limiter removed - hard to beat, but can't add timing or remove it up top.
Epic - No Experience
Advent - I bought a new unit, but it had been sitting on the shelf forever. It went bad a few rides in but it's being warrantied. Greg has been a very stand up guy and I appreciate what he's doing to help me out. Right now I run my stocker in the meantime with the limiter removed.
I would like someone to explain to me how these aftermarket ignitions, using the SAME stator are claiming to give more spark energy? With the exception of the Advent that uses the battery, all of these ignitions use the same stator, am I in the wrong or is there some kind of magic that produces more spark? The only advantage I see in the enhancer is the timing retard, the curve isn't different enough to notice a difference IMO. The epic is nice because you can change your curve. IMO the Advent is the only ignition that hits the two main points for me, spark and the ability to program a curve.
I found a big improvement upgrading my coils, even with the stock ignition. I'm running outboard engine coils stuffed in my stock ebox and they are nasty little buggers. They cured issues I was having in regards to breaking up all over the place due to lack of spark and allowed me to open up my plug gap. With stock and JSS coils I was killing the plugs and having to keep them gapped down around .024". Just my experiences, seems like everyones are a little different in this area.
Ed
- Location
- Stevensville, MD
I don't understand how the CDI would produce more spark internally. It's working from the power it's getting directly from the stator. Which oddly enough I'm told, produces less power at higher RPMs, creating more potential for detonation.
Any rate, I would be interested to see the numbers from the manufacturers. Spark energy in millijoules or something of the sort. I'm not drinking the kool aid just yet.
shawn_NJ
Chasing waves.
- Location
- Daytona Beach
I ran a new epic on a 100% brand spankin new OEM electric system and had backfires on startup, and the ski try to run/kick backwards since the first ride. The epic is coming out this week and an enhancer is going in. Sucks because I like the performace of the EPIC.
Last edited:
Fist off all, there's three coils on the stator:
1. Pulse coil - provides the trigger signal to time the ignition
2. Lighting coil - provides power to charge the battery
3. Charging coil - provides power to the CDI to do its thing.
In a completely stock setup, the spark power is dependent on RPM's and what the charging coil puts out (which is RPM dependent.) Once the ski is running, you can disconnect the battery and the ski stays running - because the CDI gets power from that coil, not the battery.
In any aftermarket CDI, it gets its power directly from the battery. Spark power is not RPM dependent because of this. If you disconnect the battery while it's running, the ski will stop. This provides better spark consistency through the RPM range.
CDI stands for capacitive discharge ignition. It works like this: you send a certain DC voltage to a capacitor circuit that will greatly increase that voltage (while decreasing current - it's a trade-off. And because energy = voltage * current * time, only an initial higher current and voltage AND/OR more time will increase energy) A semiconductor circuit then takes that voltage and releases it to the coil when the pulse coil signals it's time to spark. The coil again amplifies the voltage at the expense of current)
The stock CDI circuit is designed to work with the minimum voltage that the charging coil puts out at low RPM.
Aftermarket ignitions that draw power directly from the battery do not have to work with that limitations. Their capacitor circuits can draw more voltage AND more current to produce more energy. In MSD (Multiple Spark Discharge), it also produces spark for longer, again increasing the energy).
So those aftermarket ignitions provide a higher energy signal to the coil in the first place, whose only job it is to increase the voltage given to them (energy stays roughly the same).
If you put in a coil with higher windings ratio, you don't get more energy, but more voltage - which can jump a bigger spark plug gap which increases the sparks exposure to gas/air mix).
Hope that clears it up.
1. Pulse coil - provides the trigger signal to time the ignition
2. Lighting coil - provides power to charge the battery
3. Charging coil - provides power to the CDI to do its thing.
In a completely stock setup, the spark power is dependent on RPM's and what the charging coil puts out (which is RPM dependent.) Once the ski is running, you can disconnect the battery and the ski stays running - because the CDI gets power from that coil, not the battery.
In any aftermarket CDI, it gets its power directly from the battery. Spark power is not RPM dependent because of this. If you disconnect the battery while it's running, the ski will stop. This provides better spark consistency through the RPM range.
CDI stands for capacitive discharge ignition. It works like this: you send a certain DC voltage to a capacitor circuit that will greatly increase that voltage (while decreasing current - it's a trade-off. And because energy = voltage * current * time, only an initial higher current and voltage AND/OR more time will increase energy) A semiconductor circuit then takes that voltage and releases it to the coil when the pulse coil signals it's time to spark. The coil again amplifies the voltage at the expense of current)
The stock CDI circuit is designed to work with the minimum voltage that the charging coil puts out at low RPM.
Aftermarket ignitions that draw power directly from the battery do not have to work with that limitations. Their capacitor circuits can draw more voltage AND more current to produce more energy. In MSD (Multiple Spark Discharge), it also produces spark for longer, again increasing the energy).
So those aftermarket ignitions provide a higher energy signal to the coil in the first place, whose only job it is to increase the voltage given to them (energy stays roughly the same).
If you put in a coil with higher windings ratio, you don't get more energy, but more voltage - which can jump a bigger spark plug gap which increases the sparks exposure to gas/air mix).
Hope that clears it up.
Last edited:
- Location
- Ottawa, IL
I only have 5hrs on my epic but it kicks the enhansers butt! That said I am keeping my msd just in case I have problems, cuz stock cdi with rev mod blows donkey balls.
- Location
- Stevensville, MD
steve-uk
Manners cost nothing
- Location
- Barrie - ontario
quote of the year
KTM434
Jamie FN Hickey
- Location
- Palm Coast FL
Any more feedback from people who have run the Epic? I have an enhancer in my B1 but I have all stock ignition in my Superfreak. I'm going to run a light flywheel, and probably another MSD enhancer but I'm curious about the Epic still...
swannysxr
Site Supporter
- Location
- Lake orion, MI
I would also like to hear some more feedback. I hear alot about the enhancer and the Epic, but not much about the Advent? As of now I have a TBM flywheel, MSD Enhancer, JSS coils. But have a chance to get an Advent t3. IS it worth the money> bottom line my question is anyone running the Advent?
KTM434
Jamie FN Hickey
- Location
- Palm Coast FL
Stay away from the Advent, that's my advice about it. Never heard a good thing about them and their life span seems to be equal to a full tank of gas
Byeai
"Cheetos-Man"
- Location
- Melbourne FL
mark gomez just got a advent for his.matrix gunna see how that runs
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2