Other Inside the Mysterious Bendix . . .Pics

Mark22

Mark22

Location
Springfield, MO
So, with my curiosity piqued, I decided to run out to the garage and check out a bendix that I had lying around. The part with the gear, the clutch, is not serviceable from what I can tell. I'm not 100%, but it feels like a roller clutch drive. Roller clutches have hardened rollers and springs that pinch in one direction to stop movement and roll freely in the other direction. Probably 5 sets of rollers and springs. Even if you get the cap off, you'll never get it back on reliably. If the drive spins freely in both directions, the housing or the gear shaft (pinion) is shot. At work, we don't remanufacture small drives, we replace them 100% with new.

Also, I measured the shaft where the circlip goes and it looks like its 15mm. I looked around and it looks like a Delco 15MT/20MT/30MT circlip (retaining ring) will fit it. Any starter/alternator shop will have tons of these. Probably under $1.
 
Mark22

Mark22

Location
Springfield, MO
I've though about creating a thread on OE starter repair, I just haven't had the time to really sit down and type it all out. I think there would be a lot of interest in rebuilding your starter, BUT unfortunately, I don't think many people would do it. Here's the reason: you can buy a replacement starter for $50-$90... I've found the rebuild kit at some of the starter/alternator wholesalers for very cheap, but these places don't sell to the general public. At online retailers, the cheapest I found a 701 Yama starter rebuild kit is $25-$30. There's no real trick to rebuilding a small starter like the 701. Just the intimidation of cracking it open, I guess. Well, getting the brushes back in can sometimes be tricky. In the remanufacturing business, we don't reman any permanent magnet starters. There's no money to be made and little demand because they are so cheap from China.
 
Midlake Crisis

Midlake Crisis

Site Supporter
Location
Bakersfield, CA
Mark22 said:
I've though about creating a thread on OE starter repair, I just haven't had the time to really sit down and type it all out. I think there would be a lot of interest in rebuilding your starter, BUT unfortunately, I don't think many people would do it. Here's the reason: you can buy a replacement starter for $50-$90... I've found the rebuild kit at some of the starter/alternator wholesalers for very cheap, but these places don't sell to the general public. At online retailers, the cheapest I found a 701 Yama starter rebuild kit is $25-$30. There's no real trick to rebuilding a small starter like the 701. Just the intimidation of cracking it open, I guess. Well, getting the brushes back in can sometimes be tricky. In the remanufacturing business, we don't reman any permanent magnet starters. There's no money to be made and little demand because they are so cheap from China.
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There is a pretty strong consensus that the $90 replacements are junk though - most of us would buy used OEM over AM replacement. If I could get a rebuild kit for $40 and had the knowledge to do it right I would be all over it!
If you find the time to write it up we will be in your debt!
 
Mdavies_02

Mdavies_02

Location
Stouffville, Ontario
Midlake Crisis said:
There is a pretty strong consensus that the $90 replacements are junk though - most of us would buy used OEM over AM replacement. If I could get a rebuild kit for $40 and had the knowledge to do it right I would be all over it!
If you find the time to write it up we will be in your debt!
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X2. The three I've had to replace in the past few years have all been Used OEM rather than new AM. Rebuilding would be a great option.
 
Mark22

Mark22

Location
Springfield, MO
Well, I guess I will have to do a write-up on starters. There's really a lot of applicable info that everyone might be able to use not only on Yama 701 starters, but pretty much anything. Pretty much all small engine starters are the same. In the PWC world, really the only major difference is between Yami/Kawi starters that use a bendix drive and others like Seadoo that use a built in drive. I rebuilt a Seadoo 720 starter a few weeks ago. Like I talked about earlier, the biggest problem was getting the infernal snap ring (circlip) on and getting the brushes in place. One bit of caution on home rebuilding, the rebuild kits that I've seen are aftermarket, not OE. The biggest difference is the needle bearing and the brushes. The aftermarket kit that I bought for my 701 starter came with a vastly inferior needle bearing to what was the OE.
 
orangefinger

orangefinger

Location
Reno,NV
I need to know where u can get the needle barings, that kit from ebay sucks and the barings are the wrong size

and where can I get the spring for the bendix, these are so easy to rebuild, as are the starters...
 
Mark22

Mark22

Location
Springfield, MO
orangefinger said:
I need to know where u can get the needle barings, that kit from ebay sucks and the barings are the wrong size...
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The kit that I ordered had the wrong size bearing too. I bet your kit came with a bearing marked "HK1412". The correct bearing is an HK-1312 13.3mmID, 19mmOD 11.8mmT. INA brand is one of the best if you can get them. I think the OE was a Koyo, but the markings have been rubbed off so I can't tell for sure.

If you head down to your local starter/alternator rebuild shop, tell them to order the bearing from J&N Auto p/n 130-05047. It's an aftermarket bearing that probably won't be the best but it will fit. Should only be a couple of bucks. If you want the whole kit J&N p/n 414-54020. Again, this should be under $10 shipped from J&N. Don't order 414-54045, it shows that as the PWC kit, but it has the wrong bearing (that's the kit that I ordered). Go ahead and ask the guys at the rebuild shop about a snap ring for that bendix while you are there, they should have one in stock. FYI, J&N Auto is one of the biggest auto/truck electrical wholesale suppliers in the US. They only sell to dealers and rebuild shops. Any local rebuilder will be able to order from them.
 
mbrick

mbrick

Location
Los Gatos, CA
Do the bendix fail only while the starter motor is turning, or is the portion that fails driven by the crank so it is spinning while the engine is running?

Wondering if that $9 weight holder is something that should be changed as part of preventative maintenance? My 701 has never been touched with a wrench.

Mark22 - Yes a starter rebuild tutorial would be helpful! I see a bunch of parts on the fiche but I am not sure what the common failure point is.
Is the J&N number you cited for the bearing and for a rebuild kit for a good quality OE bearing, or the poor quality you noted above?
 
JetManiac

JetManiac

Stoked
Site Supporter
Vendor Account
Location
orlando
"Do the bendix fail only while the starter motor is turning, or is the portion that fails driven by the crank so it is spinning while the engine is running?"

Bendix is open only during cranking. Once engine starts the bendix retracts back. It only spins with running engine if it sticks open and then it bendix grenades....

"Wondering if that $9 weight holder is something that should be changed as part of preventative maintenance? My 701 has never been touched with a wrench."

Change if it is cracked or missing tabs.
 
mbrick

mbrick

Location
Los Gatos, CA
Thanks JetManiac.

I guess I would need to pull mine out and take a look.
On a <20 hour ski I doubt it is close to failing though. Is there a common point they start to be fail-prone?
 
Wizards Powersports

Wizards Powersports

Location
Denver, NC
JetManiac said:
Don't even think about on a ski that new.
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Agreed, I routinely see them in 20+ year old skis that have never had the flywheel cover or starter removed, and they are usually mint. Once you crack that factory seal, you run a much higher risk of not getting it sealed back up properly and having water intrusion. Leave it be until you get the mod bug and put a lightened flywheel in there :)
 
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