G
Goose
Guest
is their a cyl available thrue dasa/lamey that is setup for a 5mm stroke and 89-90mm bore.if so any idea on priceing
crammit442
makin' legs
- Location
- here
Yes.
- Location
- s florida
As far as I know, the big bore cylinders (89mm+) are only available for a the 6mm cranks and up that uses the kawasaki rods.
This was told to me by Kyle over at Dasa.
crammit442
makin' legs
- Location
- here
I would assume that if you got it as a kit instead of sleeves installed you could deck it to fit any configuration you need.
- Location
- s florida
Maybe with some piston modifications as well. The problem is that he rods are too short on the 5mm.
The rods are too short for what? Wouldn't cylinder decking take care of this?
Forgive me, I cant' quite picture why you couldn't cut down an 8mm cylinder to 5mm (Isn't this how the cast Lameys worked?)
What am I missing Steve?
Edit: Are you talking about angles being to great?
Forgive me, I cant' quite picture why you couldn't cut down an 8mm cylinder to 5mm (Isn't this how the cast Lameys worked?)
What am I missing Steve?
Edit: Are you talking about angles being to great?
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G
Goose
Guest
group k stock stroke motors with their new big big bore uses stock rods how about the ada 5mm stroke 89mm bore i would asume they use std legnth rods
- Location
- s florida
yes, the angles are too great.
I'm not saying it can't be done, it just isn't really reccommend it:dunno:
I know Pat from x-scream had one and it ran great but required alot of modifications
Are you saying all 5mm cranks are bad for this reason? This isn't a cylinder issue.
Besides, the angle has something to do with rod length - is there only one length you can use with a 5mm crank?
#ZERO
Beach Bum
- Location
- Florida - U.S.A.
You're better off using the long rod stroker to slow down the piston speed and to get a better mechanical advantage from the cylinder which it was designed for.
SUPERTUNE
Race Gas Rules
- Location
- Clearwater Fl.
In the beginning of modified stroker cranks, there were no aftermarket tall cylinders back then so the 5mm cranks were fitted with the stock 125mm length rods to fit the OEM stock deck height cylinders.
As aftermarket cylinders started being made (Cast Lamey, Pro Tec's cast, Able Billet and I think the R&D and Riva was produced by Lamey) this is when we saw the cranks being fitted with the Kawasaki 750 rods that are longer @ 133mm, except that rad cranks made their own billet steel rod and a lot of them were 134mm long.
The big bore cylinder that Dasa/big bore cylinder use is the CR500 dirt bike piston, in order to use that piston you need a long rod because the piston skirts are very tall (very good for strokers) but limit you if you try to build a short rod stroker crank.
I have done it, but not builder friendly as it was a lot of work to get it to fit and just barely worked.
88mm bore X 73mm +5 stroke= 888cc's
Harry @ groupk got around some of these defaults by have Wiseco make custom pistons and using a lesser stroke to his exact spec's to fit his new stock stroke kits. (very pricey pistons/and no way to buy them except through him, just like the R&D, Riva's and the Jap big bore pistons that 'O' is looking for)
As aftermarket cylinders started being made (Cast Lamey, Pro Tec's cast, Able Billet and I think the R&D and Riva was produced by Lamey) this is when we saw the cranks being fitted with the Kawasaki 750 rods that are longer @ 133mm, except that rad cranks made their own billet steel rod and a lot of them were 134mm long.
The big bore cylinder that Dasa/big bore cylinder use is the CR500 dirt bike piston, in order to use that piston you need a long rod because the piston skirts are very tall (very good for strokers) but limit you if you try to build a short rod stroker crank.
I have done it, but not builder friendly as it was a lot of work to get it to fit and just barely worked.
88mm bore X 73mm +5 stroke= 888cc's
Harry @ groupk got around some of these defaults by have Wiseco make custom pistons and using a lesser stroke to his exact spec's to fit his new stock stroke kits. (very pricey pistons/and no way to buy them except through him, just like the R&D, Riva's and the Jap big bore pistons that 'O' is looking for)
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- Location
- s florida
Thanks for chiming in Chucky!:biggthumpup: I knew it would make more sense from somebody that actually built one and knew what it involves.
crammit442
makin' legs
- Location
- here
That's right. It can work in any stroke config you desire. The 8mm version uses the base spacer more to account for the long rod than for the additional stroke. Since it comes with the sleeves uninstalled it's easy to deck the top and/or bottom to achieve the port timing needed. They can make phenomenal power. Joe Kelly's absolutely rips. It's a 7mm/89mm bore. If he will ever get on MS-109 and MSD TL it will be truly incredible.:cool2:
Edit: I misread your post. I saw DASA and was thinking ADA. They both can be built this way, but the ada comes unassembled.....oops.
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SUPERTUNE
Race Gas Rules
- Location
- Clearwater Fl.
Matt,
A new Crankworks billet stroker crank is $1400.
It's not any cheaper for a 5mm,6mm 8mm, a 10mm is $100 more and a 12mm is $300 more. (special made offset crankpins are needed w/12mm)
Why buy a high dollar cylinder and build a 5mm stroker?
Buy at least a 6mm/8mm long rod crank as it will still cost about the same to build. (small extra cost for case work) Why build smaller cc's when you doing this to GET MORE HP.
There is only 3 ways to make more power...
1.
Make engine more efficient...free flow F/A, porting, bigger carbs, better exhaust system, more compression and better ignition /w aggressive timing.
2.
Make the engine larger=Bigger bore/More stroke.
3.
Design engine to rev more RPM's= Turn the fan on high and pump more air
This has a lot of drawback for freestyle builds as we want a lot of BRAP down low.
Racers will take this route because they need speed as the jet pump in a single speed unit (no gear reduction or transmissions in jetski...well except in 4 stroke couches)
:burnout:
Like I stated, 5mm will work great on these new billet big bores as long as you use a longer rod crank, but why buy a big bore cylinder and a short stroke crank?
The engine I built to WIN the 900 cc World finals this year was a 8mm stroker and just a 85mm bore (862cc)
If you do any 2 stroke studies, you will learn that it's much easier to make more power though a smaller bore vs. a larger bore due to more efficient filling when confined by a cc rule or a $$ budget.
This is common sense engine building to me, but it took me many years!
:Eyecrazy:
A new Crankworks billet stroker crank is $1400.
It's not any cheaper for a 5mm,6mm 8mm, a 10mm is $100 more and a 12mm is $300 more. (special made offset crankpins are needed w/12mm)
Why buy a high dollar cylinder and build a 5mm stroker?
Buy at least a 6mm/8mm long rod crank as it will still cost about the same to build. (small extra cost for case work) Why build smaller cc's when you doing this to GET MORE HP.
There is only 3 ways to make more power...
1.
Make engine more efficient...free flow F/A, porting, bigger carbs, better exhaust system, more compression and better ignition /w aggressive timing.
2.
Make the engine larger=Bigger bore/More stroke.
3.
Design engine to rev more RPM's= Turn the fan on high and pump more air
This has a lot of drawback for freestyle builds as we want a lot of BRAP down low.
Racers will take this route because they need speed as the jet pump in a single speed unit (no gear reduction or transmissions in jetski...well except in 4 stroke couches)
:burnout:
Like I stated, 5mm will work great on these new billet big bores as long as you use a longer rod crank, but why buy a big bore cylinder and a short stroke crank?
The engine I built to WIN the 900 cc World finals this year was a 8mm stroker and just a 85mm bore (862cc)
If you do any 2 stroke studies, you will learn that it's much easier to make more power though a smaller bore vs. a larger bore due to more efficient filling when confined by a cc rule or a $$ budget.
This is common sense engine building to me, but it took me many years!
:Eyecrazy:
- Location
- Harrisburg, Pa
good info chuck!
masterblaster
X-H2
hmm this is the part I find interesting,Few questions here.Small strokers at the same cc as large stock stroke big bores has always felt more powerful to me? why is this?
Chuck could you give us a ball park hp of a 5 mill stroker and how much Hp is gained at each larger mill up to most freeride setups at 8,assuming they all were running a typical dual 48 carb setup, bpipe,the usual suspects. How much hp is gained by taking these same setups to a larger bore as well?
I have a unkown older stroker hp pumps built myself,stock 62t cylinder.5 mil base plate,3 mil recessed domes,trying to figure out what crank and rods are in it,Rods have USA stamped in them. This motor was built yrs back so it had to have been avail then?decent machine work.
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SUPERTUNE
Race Gas Rules
- Location
- Clearwater Fl.
Mostly your reasoning on the first question is a lot of strokers were set up for racing and port mapping on most strokers is pretty aggressive.
You MUST build the port mapping around the stroke application first not the other way around...I don't think you could say that about MY stroker packages.
Ask PANCAKE PETE about his stock cylinder'ed 5mm stroker we built for him. (I know it's an 85mm bore/828cc) The point is you probably haven't ridden the right stroker package for freestyle port mapping.
2nd question...No, I don't have horsepower #'s for 5mm strokers, But we do know how much prop we can pull now compared to engines of just a few years ago. Our newest PV billet cylinder engines running on pump 93* gas spin the crap out of the same props we ran on race gas with bigger cc engines. We have had to get more aggressive with our props/pumps now. This helps us define HP for comparison.
The engine pictured is setup with a RAD billet crankshaft assembly, they made their own billet rods also, so more than likely they are long rods.
Bob Browning (RAD) also made different rod lengths, than some of the rods we use today, I know he made 132.5mm and 134mm rods. We're mostly using 133mm rods today.
RAD cranks worked well but have been known to suffer carb tuning issues from the balance factor on the crank flywheels for more freestyle specific applications.
RoyalFlush@PCB
Shootin' The Crap
- Location
- PCB