Lets talk about engines!

Tyler Zane

Tyler Zane

Open Your Eyes
Location
Panama City Beach, FL
Ok guys, Ive wanted to talk about this for a while and keep putting it off but i've got money burning a hole in my pocket and I want to pull the trigger on a 800-900cc engine.

I want to keep this away from who is the best builder and what brands rule the industry. Lets keep it more along the lines of engine porting/setup in correlation to riding style(freestyle,race, etc.)

Freestyle is big and it seems like tons of people want all the bottom they can get even if it sacrifices the rest of the torque curve. That doesn't suite me. I do like bottom end (who doesn't?) but I crave that brutal pull all the way to the top and want to be able to hold it there.

Maybe in completely uninformed but I have this idea that freestyle engines don't have top end and race engines don't have bottom end. In reality, they both need top and bottom to some extent but where is the line? I feel like i'd be unhappy with a freestyle engine but would that really be the case? I don't race buoys but I love ripping through creeks and rivers when the surf is small. Surf is what I live for and the most important. Id also like to be the first in my small crew to do a backflip haha!

Thanks! All opinions welcome!
 
jo5hi3

jo5hi3

Location
Charlotte NC
The idea that a good freestyle engine is all bottom end is very wrong. Look at the skis that are going big. A good freestyle engine doesn't hit super hard on the bottom, it pulls hard from bottom to top, but from mid to top it pulls exceptionally hard. A motor that hits hard on the bottom will wear you out very quickly and you will struggle to flip, roll, ect on flat water. Pretty much any company you chose should be able to build what you want. If you want more info shoot me a pm and I'll be more than happy to help you out.
 
long beach local

long beach local

long beach local
Location
Az
I am struggling to make a ET 967 run in a race boat without 50/50 race fuel and have it reliable. In reality it's probably not gonna work,a lot of poeple that know what there doing (cuz I don't)have told me this but I will keep trying. Your gonna have to spend the money on every gallon you burn run it as rich as possible and hope for the best . I should just install a triple as the ski is made for it but I'm determined to run a twin Yamaha . Tzane I would have HPE build you a 800ish Stroker that runs on pump and forgetaboutit or buy a barrel of race fuel
 
DAG

DAG

Yes, my balls tickled from that landing
Location
Charlotte, NC
The big thing I learned is back when things were only big bore 760’s you wanted all the bottom end power/snap you could get in your OEM SJ hull that weight twice what hulls do today. Now that motors are getting so huge and more efficiently built/tuned and hulls are so light that they are naturally getting the bottom end yank/snap that the 760’s BB needed but they can also pull like a train thru out the powerband. If you take one of todays 900+ CC motors and a carbon hull and tune it for 100% bottom end with mild middle and top pull you are not going to be as pleased. It will feel like an arm yanker with so much bottom end but you are leaving a lot of the HP unused. Talk to your builder and tuner about your goals, they know whats up and build you a package you will be happy with.
 
Christian_83

Christian_83

Xscream
Location
Denmark
Well its VERY VERY diffrent what people think is a good and power full engine. Seems like the general idea is, if it has hard bottom off idle, its a powerfull freestyle engine. But like others above stated, most real powerfull freestyle engines, delivers good mid and powerfull topend to pull off combos.
And i think a lot would not recognise how powerfull a fully blown maxed out freestyle engine is(ex. all topped), compared to allround average-joe freestyle setup (good bottom, decent mid, little top)
I had a friend (Tim Verheij) visit me this late summer to ride and wrench. When i jumped on his DVX900RR (with he's own billet carbs, and what might be one of the best, if not the best 900cc in the world) he told me, that it was only topend, but i was really surprised. The only thing i could compare it to, was a XS1200RR. Absolute no bottom. But when it came into the powerband, all hell broke loose. I could not utilise that setup, but when he jumped back on it, everything just flowed nice and smoothly.
With that being said, there is ALOT of variables to tune your engine/setup to suit your like and manipulate the "powerband" a bit
Exhaust wet/dry (big difference)
Ignition timing
Carb settings (eks. normal jetting or reverse)
Pump setup (tight / loose pump)

What you should be focusing on, is what kind of parts will you bolt to your engine, how often are you doing rebuild. Can you do them yourself.
A 10mm engine will require initial service more often than a stock stroke or 4mm engine.
You can get really nice Stock stroke shorts blocks, and with the right parts and setup, they will hit really good.
 
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kevbo

kevbo

Location
dfw
It's easy to soften these engines into good easy to ride power plants. You just won't have the response and pull that it had when it was tuned for max performance. Can't have everything. Just turn down compression/timing, lower the exhaust port, and increase pump load. It turns into spending a lot for what you end up with.
 
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Just4Fun

Just4Fun

First World Problems...
Location
Southern Oregon
tzane said:
Thanks for the replys, lots of interesting takes on the different powerplants. Most interesting take is a 701 with lay down pipe over a 800cc + with a b pipe.
Click to expand...
You should still list you're current setup just so people have an idea of what you're use to.

My riding is very similar to yours ride the lakes and rivers but surf is where my heart is. If you dont have a big pump carbs etc you might be better off upgrading all youre parts around the motor vs buying something big and running it with a stockish setup. In the surf your not looking for crazy bottom end, waves are powerful and travel at a decent speed. Lay down pipes are great for it
Responsive bottom and a steady pull all the way to peak rpm. I don't even like riding skis with b pipes it feels like there is something wrong with them.lol this is just my opinion
 
whitca

whitca

Location
Tri-Cities, WA
Just4Fun said:
You should still list you're current setup just so people have an idea of what you're use to.

My riding is very similar to yours ride the lakes and rivers but surf is where my heart is. If you dont have a big pump carbs etc you might be better off upgrading all youre parts around the motor vs buying something big and running it with a stockish setup. In the surf your not looking for crazy bottom end, waves are powerful and travel at a decent speed. Lay down pipes are great for it
Responsive bottom and a steady pull all the way to peak rpm. I don't even like riding skis with b pipes it feels like there is something wrong with them.lol this is just my opinion
Click to expand...

You haven't ridden my ski :)
 
Tyler Zane

Tyler Zane

Open Your Eyes
Location
Panama City Beach, FL
Right now my setup is a stock 701 with a b pipe.

My previous superjet was a jet works 701, b pipe, epic, mag etc. it was an animal for a 701.

I'm looking into a 5mil 800ish, 148 mag, c4 chamber, all the bells and whistles... I'd like it to hit hard and pull to 60ish mph. that's the goal atleast. that jet works 701 would hit about 57 mph and was like a rocket all the way there. It was fun in the surf.

I was just curious what others thought about freestyle engines vs free ride engines. If there was a difference in porting or if it's all in the setup.
 
Tyler Zane

Tyler Zane

Open Your Eyes
Location
Panama City Beach, FL
I'll be doing some interesting testing with the stroker. I'm gonna run a stock 144 vs mag 144 vs mag148. I have a hand full of impellers ranging from 10-16 to 13-18. I've got a stock nozzel, and a 85mm nozzel.
 
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