Other Low End or Spark??? - Troubleshooting Help Please!

[2lick]

Hi All,

I’m looking for any suggestions to solve my issue, no idea is a bad idea! I’m really stumped. I just can't seem to understand the symptoms… I’ll add all the information I think might help. Hopefully something stands out to someone with more experience than me or point out the obvious I missed.

To start off my ski ran well two weeks ago and all summer before this. I never “fully” tuned and believe I was a little rich on the low end and possibly lean way up high but I was happy overall.

I made no changes to it. It runs horrible now. I have been doing lots of flips and failed flips and definitely take on water. Starting last weekend after some flips off a V wake it started breaking up bad on the low end. The exhaust sounded really odd as well. I went back to shore found no issues in the exhaust routing, put in new plugs (took out BR8ES, put in new BR8ES), and it slightly help then ran bad again. Put it on the trailer and went home.

Four days later I went to the river and began playing with low end screws and plugs. Every plug turned jet black and “fouled”. Put in BR8EIX and BPR8ES, neither lasted 10 minutes dry or any amount of water ruined them immediately.

At this point I thought I’d address my “slight rich” issue on my lows and dropped from 125 pilots to 122.5. The ski ran better/maybe, but very clearly leaned out on a high rev and after a bit had all the same lowend symptoms as before. Raspy as heck, breaking up, turd.

When I run the ski at half throttle or more sometimes it “clears up” and is responsive. But if I drop low for any amount of time and try to rip it, it breaks up. If I make a setup wake and try to hit it when I blip and let off it turns to a turd and breaks up hitting the setup wake.

I'm in PA, temps and humidity have gone up pretty high over the last few weeks. Water is very warm too.

I am running a Jetworks super bore stock stroke 836 with rad valves/reeds, dual FS 48s, RRP carbon pipe and RRP water box, dual cooling, 110 in spray bar, MSD enhancer, new OCD coil (I shortened and re crimped ends), and #0 lightened flywheel. I mix up Klotz r50 at 48:1.

I’d like to run up to the Can/Am Freeride if I could just get this thing back up and running well!!!
Any ideas are appreciated and thanks in advance!

-Nick

 

[svtman]

Did you drain your tank? Sounds like you might have some water in there.


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[2lick]

Did you drain your tank? Sounds like you might have some water in there.


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Thanks for the suggestion. I have ran the tank dry since then and verified no water on the bottom of my tank. Plus my pickups are hard lines that sit on the bottom and any small amount of water should be gone by now.

 

[2lick]

I verified I have even and good compression tonight. Plugs never looked like they had water on them so I think I ruled out head orings.

 

[MarkWalker]

Nick, a long shot, but do you think your stator plate could have loosened up after all the landing's and changed the timing? Or the Enhancer is eating itself up?

 

[SJsforlife]

I've had a flywheel come loose causing the timing to go wild! Ran really bad on bottom and back fired a few times.

 

[Freakie]

I would guess one of 3 most likely possibilities..1.. water has infected either your carbs internally (through contaminated fuel), or (2) exposed an electrical breakdown, or (3) a partially blown cylinder o ring due to water ingestion through carb venturis (your piston top is way too clean imo)

1.....open carbs, blow out completely, remove clean, blow, refit and all jets, etc, check pop-offs, filters, .....blow out old fuel from all lines....etc.
2. electrical.....start ski in garage at night with all lights off......spray water vapour around all HV electrics....look for arc-ing, and engine rpm variations.
3. test compression when engine is hot (ride it for 10 mins first)

 

[2lick]

Thanks everyone for the ideas. I went through most of them this morning and haven’t found an issue to fix yet. I’ll try more tonight and tomorrow.
This is what I have done…

Pulled Exhaust

• Checked spray bar wasn’t plugged, blew carb cleaner thru it to clean
• Checked water box, nothing is separated and internals look good.

Pulled Flywheel

• Stator was exactly where I installed it.
• Checked stator wire connections and pickups etc, looked good.
• Checked stator bolts, they were tight.
• Fly wheel had a little rust spot on the inside, cleaned up with steel wool.
• Everything looked good minus some oil residue

Pulled Fuel Pump

• Pulled off external fuel pump and drained lines
• Blew thru the pump draining it better
• Hung it up to dry

Pulled carbs

• Drained lines and carbs of fuel
• Verified all three reed pedals are selaing on top and bottom in each hole with mirror and light
• Diaphragms look perfect
• Checked pop off both pop crisp but front carb is 21 rear is 18
  • 2.0 and 95g are installed (should be 25)
  • I bought these new from Ed at full spec he installed jets and I never verified pope off so I don’t know what he set it at)

 

[2lick]

Pulled Head

• I don’t know what piston wash is supposed to look like.
• Keep in mind this motor has only about 30 minutes on it after the drop in one size on the pilot jets.
• One of the dome to sleeve orings looks a little eaten up.
• They also cooked to the head some
  
  
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Electrical

• Took off plug boots and verified MSD terminals felt connected well.
• Cleaned off black sooty grease and cleaned terminals
• Plugs have 20 minutes on them.

My Next Steps

• Research piston wash
• Gut carbs including needles and all, blow out all passages with cleaner and air and check for any obstructions
• Even out popoff to 21 each, leave in current jets 122.5p 135m (or do I take my pilot back up to 125?! I can’t decide)
• Maybe call Full Spec and ask for popoff
• Reassemble and water test
• Check compression after 10 minutes of ridding

If none of this works I'll move on to electronics.

• I have a “new” verified OCD modded OEM cdi I can swap in.
• Buy a new coil.

Last resort, sink the ski and collect insurance money.

 

[jo5hi3]

I would verify that you don't have a carb that's dumping fuel at part throttle. That pop off seems pretty low for those carbs.

 

[2lick]

I would verify that you don't have a carb that's dumping fuel at part throttle. That pop off seems pretty low for those carbs.

Looking at my piston wash, rear is richer than front, rear plug is richer than front, and rear popoff is the low one. Maybe your on to something...

Im gonna call Full Spec now and see what he thinks should be in there. I know he shipped them to me for my motor with 135m, 127.5 pilot, 2.0ns, and 95p springs.

 

[jo5hi3]

Looking at my piston wash, rear is richer than front, rear plug is richer than front, and rear popoff is the low one. Maybe your on to something...

Im gonna call Full Spec now and see what he thinks should be in there. I know he shipped them to me for my motor with 135m, 127.5 pilot, 2.0ns, and 95p springs.

Sounds like standard full spec jetting. Pop is usually around 24 or 25. There are a few other issues that may need some attention if you bought them new. Shoot me a pm and I can probably point you in the right direction.

 

[2lick]

Sounds like standard full spec jetting. Pop is usually around 24 or 25. There are a few other issues that may need some attention if you bought them new. Shoot me a pm and I can probably point you in the right direction.

14 minutes on the phone with Ed and my mind is blown as always... I have some tweaking to do when I get home. I'm anxious to put this back together and get back on the water. I'll report back what I learned if it works.

Josh I'll PM you my cell. Thanks man!!!

 

[erik mx45]

check our reeds also your tank check valve

 

[2lick]

check our reeds also your tank check valve

I forgot to add I used a mirror and flash light and verified no chipped reeds at all.
I'll check the tank check valve too, thanks!

 

[Bobert540]

Get that ski ripping again so we can do some flips

 

[2lick]

Thanks everyone that chimed in with tips. After checking all the above recommendations out the only finding was that one oring and the uneven low popoff. I put in new dome orings and evened up the popoff to 24/25psi. All my problems are fixed! My gut tells me it was the pop off, that 18 in the rear was low and hurting me bad. The 21 in the front was barely high enough.

Ski is ripping! Now it's time to dial in the correct popoff and jets.

Thanks again to those that reached out and helped!
-Nick

 

[96superjet]

Yea, I've recently installed two new motors and tuning carbs has more to do with getting proper pop off then it does jet sizes.
If you spend time reading the Mikuni SBN manual you realize pop off pressure accounts for almost all of your low end performance and your low end adjuster screw is really more about getting the motor to idle properly.


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