MSD TL static timing variance

[DylanS]

Hey guys, just recently installed my TL system on a new motor and my timing light is telling me my front cylinder is firing at 30* adv and my back at 27* adv ...with a non-adjustable pickup plate. Am I missing something here? Timing light maybe off?

 

[powerhouseperformance]

The pick ups are off. Just drill the holes about a bit and push them till the timing shows the same. Crank could slightly be out of phase to but that will make no difference if you adjust the pickups till the timing is the same. We check both when we set them up

 

[iQRTurbo]

Is it the dual or single pickup trigger plate?

If it’s dual, may have a crank out of phase by a few degrees. Moving the pickup plate up and down in the boss can vary by a degree from one hole to the other. Also, loosening the trigger screws and pinching together or apart can vary a degree or two. Messing with it can likely get you closer to your static timing target even if out of phase a tad. Been down that road before. You would be surprised how many people don’t check the other cylinder to even realize there is a discrepancy. Almost every setup will vary. Only true way to do it is on the bench with a degree wheel and a dial indicator and map out your piston deck position in inches before top dead center vs crankshaft position in degrees. Setting your switch 4 of switch 3 to “on” will allow you to see led turn on as the magnetic passes over the trigger. Always set to the first instant the led turns on as the magnet is several degrees of duration wide.

 

[iQRTurbo]

The pick ups are off. Just drill the holes about a bit and push them till the timing shows the same. Crank could slightly be out of phase to but that will make no difference if you adjust the pickups till the timing is the same. We check both when we set them up

You typed faster than me Zack, lol

 

[augustaf]

Use a degree wheel to check timing for both cylinders- adjust p/u if needed.

 

[DylanS]

Is it the dual or single pickup trigger plate?

If it’s dual, may have a crank out of phase by a few degrees. Moving the pickup plate up and down in the boss can vary by a degree from one hole to the other. Also, loosening the trigger screws and pinching together or apart can vary a degree or two. Messing with it can likely get you closer to your static timing target even if out of phase a tad. Been down that road before. You would be surprised how many people don’t check the other cylinder to even realize there is a discrepancy. Almost every setup will vary. Only true way to do it is on the bench with a degree wheel and a dial indicator and map out your piston deck position in inches before top dead center vs crankshaft position in degrees. Setting your switch 4 of switch 3 to “on” will allow you to see led turn on as the magnetic passes over the trigger. Always set to the first instant the led turns on as the magnet is several degrees of duration wide.

Awesome, dual pickup plate, i will try to adjust the pickups. Timing is as stated as soon as light turns on, I’ll double check with a degree wheel here soon before making any changes to the plate. The gp800/1200 pickup plates are adjustable so I had just assumed the 62t style plate was already set correct, unless crank is out of phase. Its a Dasa 1200 crank so it should have been true’d and welded correct? I really hope it’s not now you guys got me nervous lol, I’ll check it out soon. Thanks for the info man good stuff!!!

 

[DylanS]

The pick ups are off. Just drill the holes about a bit and push them till the timing shows the same. Crank could slightly be out of phase to but that will make no difference if you adjust the pickups till the timing is the same. We check both when we set them up

I had just assumed they’d be dead on since they weren’t adjustable lol!! I’m going to check with a degree wheel to verify and then I guess I’ll get the drill out

 

[Harbor]

Not trying to split hairs here or argue, but All this talk about crank phase effecting When the ignition fires “timing”.each cylinder Seriously ?

Please explain it ?

To my knowledge the ignition has no idea where the pistons are, or wether the crank is in phase or not....or if there are any pistons at all.....it’s all assumed based off of the inputs.

The flywheel magnets and their position, the 2 pickups And their position and the flywheel keyway and it’s position are sending TDC info and cylinder ID to the brain, this is telling the ignition where the pistons are.. not the crank webs or their positions..

If the keyway is out of phase it would effect both cylinders..

Iam I misunderstanding what you guys are saying ?

 

[iQRTurbo]

Not trying to split hairs here or argue, but All this talk about crank phase effecting When the ignition fires “timing”.each cylinder Seriously ?

Please explain it ?

To my knowledge the ignition has no idea where the pistons are, or wether the crank is in phase or not....or if there are any pistons at all.....it’s all assumed based off of the inputs.

The flywheel magnets and their position, the 2 pickups And their position and the flywheel keyway and it’s position are sending TDC info and cylinder ID to the brain, this is telling the ignition where the pistons are.. not the crank webs or their positions..


If the keyway is out of phase it would effect both cylinders..

Iam I misunderstanding what you guys are saying ?

I check timing based on piston position before top dead center with a dial indicator so I know exactly where the piston is located when the magnet tells the pickup to fire. If the crank is out of phase it is immediately evident, that is where my reference is coming from. You are correct in the sense that a timing light would have no knowledge of crank phase, I’ve never checked timing that way.

 

[Harbor]

I check timing based on piston position before top dead center with a dial indicator so I know exactly where the piston is located when the magnet tells the pickup to fire. If the crank is out of phase it is immediately evident, that is where my reference is coming from. You are correct in the sense that a timing light would have no knowledge of crank phase, I’ve never checked timing that way.

Gotcha, thanks that clears it up

 

[augustaf]

Readjusting a pick up is not difficult. Pic shows me converting an old sgl. p/u to dual- worked well- was able to get it spot on with little effort.

 

[DylanS]

pulled the plate off and you can obviously see this was a single pick up plate converted over, one set of holes is missing anodization. Would explain why the timing is off lol, I’m going to try to redrill but I’m not sure how much I’d have to move the pickup to make up 3*
Update: adjusted pickup by close to 1 1/2mm and each cylinder is firing within .01” of eachother

 

[DylanS]

No spark, timing light on brain box flashing in sync with motor cranking over and when I try to test pickups via 6 pin jump.. anyone know if the timing light should be off when box has ign on and light off? Sounds like a dumb question but I can’t remember, starting to think my s3 4 dip switch crapped out and is stuck on the timing set up mode..

 

[Jcary85]

No spark, timing light on brain box flashing in sync with motor cranking over and when I try to test pickups via 6 pin jump.. anyone know if the timing light should be off when box has ign on and light off? Sounds like a dumb question but I can’t remember, starting to think my s3 4 dip switch crapped out and is stuck on the timing set up mode..

Not 100% following your question but I think you are asking if the lights on the brain still come on if the test mode dip switch is off? If so, the answer is yes. It lights up at each pickup trigger regardless of test mode.

 

[DylanS]

Not 100% following your question but I think you are asking if the lights on the brain still come on if the test mode dip switch is off? If so, the answer is yes. It lights up at each pickup trigger regardless of test mode.

answers my question, thanks man

 

[MTRHEAD]

The msd plates are not 180. I complained years ago about this. it was a way to retard the rear cylinder. Assuming you use the retarded pickup for rear. Most plates I’ve used were made 98-05 time period. ALL had one about 3 degrees off