Byeai
"Cheetos-Man"
- Location
- Melbourne FL
They come fully charged but advance sells the lithium charger also
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Custom/Hybrid New lithium battery at advance auto
- Thread starter Byeai
- Start date
Philip Clemmons
Owner, P&P Performance
- Location
- Richmond, Va
You must use lithium chargers....... NOT trickle chargers. That's half the reason the other brands are failing!
Just when its dead? Doesnt the charging system on a ski pretty much trickle charge?
Philip Clemmons
Owner, P&P Performance
- Location
- Richmond, Va
They really aren't designed for charging systems, regardless of what they say. Lithium chargers charge in a very different way ( with respect to Applied voltage and current ) than other chargers, charging systems included.
Good info may have to rethink going lithium.
Byeai
"Cheetos-Man"
- Location
- Melbourne FL
Yes Philip is correct u have to use a lithium charger
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- Location
- Beach side Florida
Niceee bradley
spookyjjj
Back @ it
- Location
- Billings Mt
So what this boils down to that its for a total loss system
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- Location
- Palm Beach, Fl
antigravity batteries work great when used properly
- Location
- Smyrna
Part#?
- Location
- Edmonton, AB
Wish that we the case, some work great... others fail rather quickly
Byeai
"Cheetos-Man"
- Location
- Melbourne FL
If u charge them correctly they will last
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- Location
- Edmonton, AB
No they wont, improper charge is not the only reason they fail. I've had stock charging systems in ski's kill them, to water ingestion and corrosion issues. AG's quality is hit or miss, some work great others dont. Ag's problems only increase when you introduce them to cold water.
Byeai
"Cheetos-Man"
- Location
- Melbourne FL
I've been running one for 6 months and no issues with total loss and I'm new to flips so it's alot of stopping and starting with a 12 cell and 16 cell
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- Location
- Edmonton, AB
Thats great that yours still works, it might be own of the better ones. The problem is you haven't tried more then one.. My first 12 cell AG is still going stong: the rest not so much. Hell I have a 1st gen ballistic without the balance port still alive. I'm more pissed off then most over these AG batteries as I recommended and sold a lot of them to customers last summer and most failed. Yes some customers battery's failed due to improper charging, which is a risk with any battery, but quite a few failed due to other reasons.
I don't know about these batteries so maybe someone can school me. If they need a lithium battery charger to be charged, would a stock charging system cause issues, since that system isn't made to charge lithium batteries?
- Location
- Edmonton, AB
Thats the funny thing about Anti Gravity and Ballistic, they won't warranty total loss any more, when the stock charging systems can be the really killer. AG's policy states that a lithium charger must be used or the warranty is void, but what about a stock charging system that was design for a lead battery?
Earthx are the only ones right now with a battery management system built into the battery to balance the cells
My understanding is if you run a lithium battery to low it will not charge up again. So yeah I don't blame them for not giving a warranty for total loss. I don't understand how they say you need a special charger for lithium batteries, but don't say anything about using it on a charging system for a lead battery.
What is the difference between the two chargers?
Sounds like things weren't thought through when producing these batteries.
What is the difference between the two chargers?
Sounds like things weren't thought through when producing these batteries.
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Philip Clemmons
Owner, P&P Performance
- Location
- Richmond, Va
I could write pages about the differences in charging. Lithium batteries require a CC/CV charger, period. A stock charging system IS NOT the correct method. Short version is voltage is monitored and capped at 14.4V, and current adjusted from there. Depending on applications some lithiums (ballistics) can be balanced. AGs do not have a balance provision. This maintains a maximum of 3.6 volts per cell to keep from overcharging, and is the proper and preferred way to charge lithiums. If one cell is low, the others will be overcharged to achieve the 14.4 total output if you don't have a balancing charger connected.
Total loss is the ideal application for these batteries, IF they are not over discharged. Running them too low, even once, can greatly affect lifespan. The problem from the companies eyes is there is no way to assure they are not over discharged in a total loss system, so they CTA and say no warranty. This technology was designed for RC use and the actual cells used have been tested and shown life cycles in the thousands. That's alot of charges.
The issue for us is twofold. First, the ampacity ratings they are use are for peak burst, meaning a short, intense burst of power. This rating is 120 amps per cell. The continuous current rating is around 70 amps. When you see a 16 cell rated at 480 amps, that's using the peak rating of 120 X 4 cells, giving you 480 CCA. In reality, for anything other than an immediate start, you have a 240 amp battery (70 X 4). This is less than stock and we all run higher compression, and some of us big CCs. This essentially works the battery harder than it was designed. It also encourages people to buy 8 and 12 cells because the peak ratings are 240/360 respectively. 240 is still almost double an ETX 9 and the 360 is more than a full size ETX 16. This is obviously assuming the "peak" ratings. In reality, you have 140 with an 8 and 210 with a 12 ( stock is around 330). This puts a tremendous load on the batteries, and shortens their life. Add to the mix a waterlogged ski, or a poor/non-starting ski, and you're really demanding extended, continuous power.
Secondly, we beat the hell out of them physically, submerge them in water (in freestyle apps), and usually don't charge as instructed. If they leak, they will fail in very short order, period.
I ran a 20 cell AG for almost a year, and by my error, cracked a terminal. It was on the delicate side but common sense and proper technique will avoid issues. I was lazy and learned the hard way. I've had one other fail of my personal ones, and it was due to water intrusion. They warranties without question. I've got two that I ran all last summer. One is still about 90% and the other 60-70%. (proper chargers can tell you a ton about battery health as well). These batteries are in the 150 gallon range, on total loss.
That said, I've seen some of my customers have failures, and I can't vouch for why. AG has been great to work with on the physical issues, but due to the varying nature of use ( and care) they are subjected to by us, have tightened up on warranting the electrical faults. I do have one customer that beat one up pretty bad in a short time (3-4 months over the summer), but he consistently ran it down to the point of not starting, and let it sit discharged for dsys/weeks before charging. This battery still works, but is weak. His care was "less than ideal."
Unfortunately, people like me don't help the situation, because when I order batteries from them, they last. It reinforces the idea that conditions outside of their control are damaging the batteries. They are working on a new design that should work better for us, but no word on if/when it will be finalized.
If you run more cells than you think you need, the chances if one lasting are considerably higher. I will never go back to lead acid/agms. They are too heavy/big for freestyle applications IMO.
I am not trying to be biased in any way, just reporting it as I see it, and from what I've learned working with them for the last two seasons. We just recently purchased two for customer/friends skis that I will be closely monitoring to see if they last for them, with these customers strictly following my care instructions. If they don't, I'll be the first to admit there may be a QC issue. If they do, then it's likely how the batteries are being handled is a large part of the issues.
Hope this helped to answer some questions without derailing the thread.
Total loss is the ideal application for these batteries, IF they are not over discharged. Running them too low, even once, can greatly affect lifespan. The problem from the companies eyes is there is no way to assure they are not over discharged in a total loss system, so they CTA and say no warranty. This technology was designed for RC use and the actual cells used have been tested and shown life cycles in the thousands. That's alot of charges.
The issue for us is twofold. First, the ampacity ratings they are use are for peak burst, meaning a short, intense burst of power. This rating is 120 amps per cell. The continuous current rating is around 70 amps. When you see a 16 cell rated at 480 amps, that's using the peak rating of 120 X 4 cells, giving you 480 CCA. In reality, for anything other than an immediate start, you have a 240 amp battery (70 X 4). This is less than stock and we all run higher compression, and some of us big CCs. This essentially works the battery harder than it was designed. It also encourages people to buy 8 and 12 cells because the peak ratings are 240/360 respectively. 240 is still almost double an ETX 9 and the 360 is more than a full size ETX 16. This is obviously assuming the "peak" ratings. In reality, you have 140 with an 8 and 210 with a 12 ( stock is around 330). This puts a tremendous load on the batteries, and shortens their life. Add to the mix a waterlogged ski, or a poor/non-starting ski, and you're really demanding extended, continuous power.
Secondly, we beat the hell out of them physically, submerge them in water (in freestyle apps), and usually don't charge as instructed. If they leak, they will fail in very short order, period.
I ran a 20 cell AG for almost a year, and by my error, cracked a terminal. It was on the delicate side but common sense and proper technique will avoid issues. I was lazy and learned the hard way. I've had one other fail of my personal ones, and it was due to water intrusion. They warranties without question. I've got two that I ran all last summer. One is still about 90% and the other 60-70%. (proper chargers can tell you a ton about battery health as well). These batteries are in the 150 gallon range, on total loss.
That said, I've seen some of my customers have failures, and I can't vouch for why. AG has been great to work with on the physical issues, but due to the varying nature of use ( and care) they are subjected to by us, have tightened up on warranting the electrical faults. I do have one customer that beat one up pretty bad in a short time (3-4 months over the summer), but he consistently ran it down to the point of not starting, and let it sit discharged for dsys/weeks before charging. This battery still works, but is weak. His care was "less than ideal."
Unfortunately, people like me don't help the situation, because when I order batteries from them, they last. It reinforces the idea that conditions outside of their control are damaging the batteries. They are working on a new design that should work better for us, but no word on if/when it will be finalized.
If you run more cells than you think you need, the chances if one lasting are considerably higher. I will never go back to lead acid/agms. They are too heavy/big for freestyle applications IMO.
I am not trying to be biased in any way, just reporting it as I see it, and from what I've learned working with them for the last two seasons. We just recently purchased two for customer/friends skis that I will be closely monitoring to see if they last for them, with these customers strictly following my care instructions. If they don't, I'll be the first to admit there may be a QC issue. If they do, then it's likely how the batteries are being handled is a large part of the issues.
Hope this helped to answer some questions without derailing the thread.
Last edited: