New total loss ignition?

I have a 98 750SXI Pro. I bought it with lots of after market parts that were state of the art in 98. It has that era MSD TL. The ski runs terrible. I've addressed all fuel issues. I want to replace the TL. Thinking of going to Advent. They build them for 800 SXR's. The guy at advent says it will work on mine. He is just not sure about the flywheel and the pickup. Do I need to change the flywheel? What do you think of going to the Advent system? What else will I need beyond the box? The guy at Advent couldn't give me a definite answer because it was a 750 not an SXR. I want to know for sure what I need so I can buy it, take everything to a shop, have them install its and not come back and tell me I bought the wrong part or I need additional stuff or its not going to work or not compatible. Thanks for your help.


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Are you sure your ignition is "total loss"? Have you pulled the stator cover to look at your flywheel?

If I were you, I would go back to an OEM flywheel, and OEM stator and cover (will have correct pickup), and swap to the advent. None of those parts are difficult to swap out.. If you decide you want to run a total loss system, just make sure you get a stator out of an 04+ SXR or late 90's ZXI and knock the magnets out of the stock flywheel-- it lightens it up A LOT and you won't have to deal with any of that MSD junk.
 
Meant to say, "New Total Loss Ignition?". Can't edit title. Anyway, I have a 98 750SXI Pro. I bought it with lots of after market parts that were state of the art in 98. It has that era MSD TL. The ski runs terrible. I've addressed all fuel issues. I want to replace the TL. Thinking of going to Advent. They build them for 800 SXR's. The guy at advent says it will work on mine. He is just not sure about the flywheel and the pickup. Do I need to change the flywheel? What do you think of going to the Advent system? What else will I need beyond the box? The guy at Advent couldn't give me a definite answer because it was a 750 not an SXR. I want to know for sure what I need so I can buy it, take everything to a shop, have them install its and not come back and tell me I bought the wrong part or I need additional stuff or its not going to work or not compatible. Thanks for your help.


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Are you sure your ignition is "total loss"? Have you pulled the stator cover to look at your flywheel?

If I were you, I would go back to an OEM flywheel, and OEM stator and cover (will have correct pickup), and swap to the advent. None of those parts are difficult to swap out.. If you decide you want to run a total loss system, just make sure you get a stator out of an 04+ SXR or late 90's ZXI and knock the magnets out of the stock flywheel-- it lightens it up A LOT and you won't have to deal with any of that MSD junk.

It's definitely a TL system. I sent a picture of it to Jet Ski solutions. And he said the old MSD coil I had was problematic. It's circa late 90's. Anyway, I bought a used Ebox and stator online to go back to stock. Do I need to get another flywheel? When this MSD system was installed years ago did they have to change out the flywheel? I still haven't ruled out going to TL with Advent but I see a lot of people saying there is problems with getting the timing right with aftermarket flywheels. There are some used Jetronics on eBay.
As a compromise between TL and stock I thought of getting an MSD enhancer and upgraded coil with the otherwise stock system. What do you think?


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Personally, I would take all the MSD stuff and throw it up on eBay or something. What ski did the ebox and stator come out of that you have?

I assume you have an aluminum flywheel on the ski right now?

I would put everything back to stock until you are ready to get an advent. Once you get an Advent, you can knock the magnets out of the stock flywheel to lighten it up if you want.
 
If you want to run the aluminum FW you have now (assuming that is what you have) just keep in mind that you have to frequently check the torque on those things as they are known to come loose on people. Personally, the weight savings on the aluminum unit is not worth the hassle-- knock the magnets out of the stocker and you can even have it further lightened and rebalanced by Chris Newmiller or #Zero.
 
If you want to run the aluminum FW you have now (assuming that is what you have) just keep in mind that you have to frequently check the torque on those things as they are known to come loose on people. Personally, the weight savings on the aluminum unit is not worth the hassle-- knock the magnets out of the stocker and you can even have it further lightened and rebalanced by Chris Newmiller or #Zero.
Thanks for the advice. How is the reliability of the Advent? Wouldn't mind having the power but don't want to sacrifice reliability. Do I need a coil with the Advent? If so , which one do you recommend.? Is it the MSD 4294 (I think???)
What do you think about those charging flywheels? Do they actually charge the battery?


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Personally, I would take all the MSD stuff and throw it up on eBay or something. What ski did the ebox and stator come out of that you have?

I assume you have an aluminum flywheel on the ski right now?

I would put everything back to stock until you are ready to get an advent. Once you get an Advent, you can knock the magnets out of the stock flywheel to lighten it up if you want.
Here is the description of the stator and cover I bought. It's the same teel color as my engine. Hopefully it's the right one.

"this is a like brand new OEM flywheel cover and stator unit that fits all kawasaki 750 years makes and models from 1992 thru 2002.EXCEPT 750ZXI! it came off a big pin 750 stidown model but will fit all models since it has the long pig tail wiring. stand up models have the short wires and dont work on the sitdown models. no a scratch on it and tests GOOD! NO JUNK HERE! GUARANTEED!! if your 750 doesnt run, have spark or charge the battery, this is a very likely problem! retail price on this item is well over $500"

Here is the sellers description of the Ebox. I specifically asked him if it is the one for mine and he said it would work. Hopefully he's right.

"Complete Ebox removed from a freshwater kawasaki 750 SS in excellent condition. This ebox has been run tested and is fully functional. This part will fit many other models and years please check with your dealer prior to purchase to see if this part is right for you. I am parting out this entire jet ski and several others. If there is something that you do not see, do not hesitate to ask. Thanks for looking!"

As far as the flywheel, I don't know what I have yet.


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I would use a standard Kawi coil when you go to the advent. The stock kawi unit works just fine. Don't buy the garbage marketing line from MSD.

It looks like you got a stator out of a BP ski, and an ebox out of a SP ski, which is fine, except the stock CDI in the SP skis is not as good as the BP CDI-- the BP CDI has a better timing curve. 3738 or 3735 are the better CDI units. The CDI you have in that Ebox will NOT support a total loss ignition. Sending this coil to Jet Ski Solutions for a coil wire upgrade is a worthwhile modification.

I would skip the aluminum flywheels and just get a stock unit. Any 95+ kawasaki flywheel will fit on your motor. If you decide you want a little more lowend when you get the advent and don't mind charging the battery after you ride, knock the magnets out and have it lightened as noted above. A lot of people use the aluminum flywheels without issue, just my personal preference to skip them.
 
I would use a standard Kawi coil when you go to the advent. The stock kawi unit works just fine. Don't buy the garbage marketing line from MSD.

It looks like you got a stator out of a BP ski, and an ebox out of a SP ski, which is fine, except the stock CDI in the SP skis is not as good as the BP CDI-- the BP CDI has a better timing curve. 3738 or 3735 are the better CDI units. The CDI you have in that Ebox will NOT support a total loss ignition. Sending this coil to Jet Ski Solutions for a coil wire upgrade is a worthwhile modification.

I would skip the aluminum flywheels and just get a stock unit. Any 95+ kawasaki flywheel will fit on your motor. If you decide you want a little more lowend when you get the advent and don't mind charging the battery after you ride, knock the magnets out and have it lightened as noted above. A lot of people use the aluminum flywheels without issue, just my personal preference to skip them.

Thanks for all that. Excuse my ignorance, but what does BP and SP stand for? Is the CDI considered the coil?


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SP is Small Pin and BP is Big Pin. It refers to the size of the piston wrist pin, which I think are 20 and 22mm, respectively (I think, I can't recall at the moment if that is their actual size). The SP cases have 10 studs on the intake side, and the cranks use smaller, lighter webs. The BP cases have 12 studs on the intake side and have larger crank webs. SP cranks fit in BP cases, but it is not a recommended combo due to case volume and primary compression issues. BP cranks do not fit in SP cases without a lot of clearance mods-- also not recommended. The SP motors were made from '92 to '94 (I think they stopped in '94, not positive) BP motors went from '95 - whenever they stopped the making the SXR. All BP cranks and cases are interchangeable, but the SXR cases came from the factory with some mild finger porting and a slight change in angle to the intake-- angle change made for more ideal airflow into the cases. Case top and bottom halves should never be swapped or interchanged. They are machined as a matched pair.

The SP motors came with less aggressive cylinder port timings that provide better bottom end/throttle response, and the BP motors came with more aggressive port timings that provided better top speed. The size of the wrist pin should not be a consideration for most engine builds-- the SP cranks hold up just fine unless you are building a 200+psi compression monster. The SP cylinders tend to work ok on BP bottom ends, but I have heard that BP cylinders do not work so well on SP bottom ends. For rec boats, I prefer the SP motors as they tend to be more responsive due to the less aggressive port timings and lighter cranks. For racing the, either generally works fine or can be made to work fine, though the porting in the BP cylinder is more ideal in stock form. Most people don't realize how close the BP porting is to what the Kawi race team ran-- it is surprisingly close. Much closer than the SP or SXR cylinders in stock form-- MUCH closer. All the cylinders, except the early SX cylinder, have a 2 digit stamp in the intake side. 22 is an SP cylinder, 24 is a BP cylinder with terrible transfer ports, 29 is a BP cylinder (the good BP cylinder), and 55 is the SXR cylinder. The crappy BP cylinder was only made in '95. Your '98 should have a #29 on it, unless a previous owner swapped it for something else.

The CDI is the black box with "all the wires" plugged into it. It takes a reading from the pickup in the stator cover and provides the proper ignition timing for the given RPM. The orange and black wires that come from the CDI are plugged into the ignition coil-- this is what provides spark to the plugs. Both plugs spark every 180*. So one is sparking at/near the top of the piston stroke under compression like it should, and the other sparks at/near the bottom of the piston stroke during the exhaust/scavenging cycle, basically doing nothing. Not an important fact, but worth noting. The reason the BP CDI has a better, more aggressive timing curve, was to make up for some of the bottom end lost from the more aggressive port timings noted above.

There should be a 4 or 8 digit number stamped on the CDI-- tell me what it is. Some units have the complete 8 digit part number on them, some were only stamped with the first 4 digits.
 
SP is Small Pin and BP is Big Pin. It refers to the size of the piston wrist pin, which I think are 20 and 22mm, respectively (I think, I can't recall at the moment if that is their actual size). The SP cases have 10 studs on the intake side, and the cranks use smaller, lighter webs. The BP cases have 12 studs on the intake side and have larger crank webs. SP cranks fit in BP cases, but it is not a recommended combo due to case volume and primary compression issues. BP cranks do not fit in SP cases without a lot of clearance mods-- also not recommended. The SP motors were made from '92 to '94 (I think they stopped in '94, not positive) BP motors went from '95 - whenever they stopped the making the SXR. All BP cranks and cases are interchangeable, but the SXR cases came from the factory with some mild finger porting and a slight change in angle to the intake-- angle change made for more ideal airflow into the cases. Case top and bottom halves should never be swapped or interchanged. They are machined as a matched pair.

The SP motors came with less aggressive cylinder port timings that provide better bottom end/throttle response, and the BP motors came with more aggressive port timings that provided better top speed. The size of the wrist pin should not be a consideration for most engine builds-- the SP cranks hold up just fine unless you are building a 200+psi compression monster. The SP cylinders tend to work ok on BP bottom ends, but I have heard that BP cylinders do not work so well on SP bottom ends. For rec boats, I prefer the SP motors as they tend to be more responsive due to the less aggressive port timings and lighter cranks. For racing the, either generally works fine or can be made to work fine, though the porting in the BP cylinder is more ideal in stock form. Most people don't realize how close the BP porting is to what the Kawi race team ran-- it is surprisingly close. Much closer than the SP or SXR cylinders in stock form-- MUCH closer. All the cylinders, except the early SX cylinder, have a 2 digit stamp in the intake side. 22 is an SP cylinder, 24 is a BP cylinder with terrible transfer ports, 29 is a BP cylinder (the good BP cylinder), and 55 is the SXR cylinder. The crappy BP cylinder was only made in '95. Your '98 should have a #29 on it, unless a previous owner swapped it for something else.

The CDI is the black box with "all the wires" plugged into it. It takes a reading from the pickup in the stator cover and provides the proper ignition timing for the given RPM. The orange and black wires that come from the CDI are plugged into the ignition coil-- this is what provides spark to the plugs. Both plugs spark every 180*. So one is sparking at/near the top of the piston stroke under compression like it should, and the other sparks at/near the bottom of the piston stroke during the exhaust/scavenging cycle, basically doing nothing. Not an important fact, but worth noting. The reason the BP CDI has a better, more aggressive timing curve, was to make up for some of the bottom end lost from the more aggressive port timings noted above.

There should be a 4 or 8 digit number stamped on the CDI-- tell me what it is. Some units have the complete 8 digit part number on them, some were only stamped with the first 4 digits.

The number on my igniter is 3728.

Is this the right ignitor thats for sale on Ebay? Says its a replacement for a 3738. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-75...New-/271714694332?hash=item3f437534bc&vxp=mtr

Here is a picture of the Ebox and igniter I bought? Will this bolt onto the existing bolt pattern of my 750 SXI Pro?
 

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That is definitely a SP CDI, and not the ideal one to have. You could replace the CDI, or use the R&D 6* advance plate in the stator cover. You just have to be really careful with your compression and the fuel octane you run, as it adds quite a bit of advance to the upper RPM range. If you use that CDI and don't mess with the compression, you should be fine on 91 or 92 pump gas. I personally don't run those fixed advance keys-- too much advance on the top end IMO. But I know a lot of people have run them without issue.

Do not replace the CDI with that 3rd party ebay junk. If you can't find an OEM 3738, 3735, or 3739 for a reasonable price on ebay (less than $85), I have one I can sell you.

That ebox will not bolt into your SXi Pro. You will need to transfer the guts from one to the other. I know it looks intimidating, but it is not hard to do. All the wires are color coded and there are parts diagrams available online if you get stuck. Alternatively, you could send both eboxes to JetSki Solutions, have him do the coil wire upgraded (highly recommended on a coil that old) and have him swap the guts for you.
 
Not what I wanted to here. So much for my idea of bringing these parts to a shop and having them install it without having to dick around with everything. I don't have the original box The guy who sold me that box f'ed me. I'm going to hammer him in the reviews.
To complicate everything, this ski is built to run on 100 octane. The cylinders might even be ported. ADA head, black jack carbs, pipe, etc.
I'm thinking Advent again. Just to be clear, besides the Advent box what do I need if I went this route. Thanks for your help.
 
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That CDI will run the ski, but it is not the same curve as the one that ski came with. And that box will definitely NOT bolt into an SXi Pro, but the guts could be transferred and work fine.

Check the compression on that motor and then pull the head and see what size domes they are. I check the compression with both plugs in and the throttle held all the way open while cranking.

Post a pic of your current ebox. You should just need to swap out the CDI if your MSD coil still works. If the coil is bad, you need a new one. If you need a new one, get an OEM-- they are like $75 through partzilla. Stay away from all third party electrical parts. You may also need an OEM flywheel and stator, depending on what is going on there with the parts you have now.

Race skis are not an ideal first purchase.
 
I called Greg at Circuit Jet Sports in Huntington Beach and he is going to look around his shop for the right parts to bring this thing back to stock. He is very familiar with this ski. Only problem is he is 2 hours away, without traffic. Pushing three with traffic. I just want to get this POS running.


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I used to go to Greg. Took my ski to him a few times to have it tank tuned and it still sucked when I got it to the water. One too many bad experiences there led me to learn alllllll of this and how to fix and tune my own ski. There are a lot of people I would recommend before him...

Are you north or south of HB?

I would recommend you send all your electronics to John at Jetski Solutions and let him sort it out waaaaay before taking your whole ski down to CJS.
 
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