OMG! Pushed the rear seal out on my Wave Venture 1100. Please help!

[trxxx250r]

I just rebuilt this motor and have about 5 hours on it. It ran excellent till my last run at the lake a few days ago and it just died and wouldn't re-fire. I thought it was because I was almost out of fuel and I switched to reserve and had air in the fuel lines. Then after messing with it at home it just wasn't sucking fuel from the tank. I thought it was the fuel pump. Then today in the process of removing the fuel pump I just had a weird feeling about the seals and thought I should check on them. I took a flashlight and looked down between the case and the PTO cover and sure enough the rear seal is half way pushed out on one side which explains the lack of pulse to the fuel pump. My heart sunk!

I think I know what caused this. I bought a flush kit/hose to run it in the driveway and did this before my last trip to the lake. Unlike my outboard boat motor you are not supposed to turn the water on until you start the motor, well I did the opposite out of habit and I believe water entered the motor from the exhaust. I could hear the motor kind of hydraulic locking and pinging when it fired. After a few seconds that stopped and it ran fine. Do you guys think this is what pushed that seal out?

All that said - Can I tap that seal back in with maybe some sealant on it or am I doomed to having to having to tear the whole motor down again? I realize the seals have ridges on them which seat in the case haves but I don't know if people pop new seals in these things from the outside when necessary or what?

I am extremely upset about this - Please help ASAP. Thanks!

 

[TheBuzzard]

just flip the motor upside down and pull off the bottom case. you can lift the crank up enough to put new seals in there, without tearing the motor apart.

 

[trxxx250r]

Ok, I have the motor ready to pull after several hours.

But, what do you think caused this??? I don't want to do this again!

They were seals from a WSM kit.

 

[IS0LD0UT]

Get oem seals.

 

[TheBuzzard]

did you put them in right, did you hydrolic them out with water in the cases, did you put 1211 on them when you put them in?

 

[trxxx250r]

Get oem seals.

I didn't know if WSM used oem seals in their kits or not. Actually I didn't even think it mattered. Are WSM seals bad??? I bought the full kit through the guy who did the machine work and figured they were good. They were installed right and meticulously. But for whatever reason they pushed out. Come to think of it do I need to pull the flywheel and check the mag seal?

 

[trxxx250r]

did you put them in right, did you hydrolic them out with water in the cases, did you put 1211 on them when you put them in?

Yes they were installed right, I took my time and made sure. I used yamabond 4 on the cases and also a thin coat on the outside of the seals. Dealership told me yamabond 4 is the same exact product as threebond 1211 just a different package. I already had yamabond.

Whether I "hydrauliced" them out is the question I'm asking everyone here! Do you think that's what caused this??? This is the big question for me right now. Yes I turned the flush hose on several minutes before I fired the motor, actually on several occasions if I'm going to be honest and yes I heard and new there was water in the motor, yes the motor sounded like it was hydraulic locking but it didn't actually lock it fired up and after a few seconds ran fine. It also ran fine at the lake until it just died instantly when I was right at the point between on and reserve. wouldn't fire again and would suck no fuel thru the lines. I'm not sure when the seal totally pushed out..... I didn't hear or feel any signs of seizure (believe me I know the signs), it ran strong all the way till it died.

Will having water in the motor from what I described push the seals out?

Do I absolutely have to use OEM or are WSM fine and I'm just an inexperienced idiot and blew the seals out from water in the motor. I have local availability to WSM seals but OEM will take awhile...

 

[trxxx250r]

Unfortunately I think that's what happened (on several occasions), I'm a newb to PWC and my inexperience has bit me hard this time! There was definitely water in the motor, twice! And, after the first time I had no idea (I rigged a hose off the pump line cuz I didn't have the proper adapter) till I read something about it then it clicked and made sense. Then what did I do, turned around when I got my flush kit and did the same thing again! Fricken STUPID! I'm so used to doing it that way with my bass boat it was just habit.

Anyway, I've accepted it and just trying to get it fixed. Fricken shame because I did such a good job building that motor.

I just hope I didn't lean out too much and damage the cylinders. There's 2 seals in there so I'm hoping they held well enough so there's no damage

I have very little time on the motor and probably 1 hour after the last time I filled the motor with water. If I inspect the existing seals with a magnifying glass and calipers etc, and they look perfect, do you think it would be possible to reuse them?

 

[kurtwolff]

I would check compression before pulling motor. I prefer to use the ARS seals from WSM or the OEM. I would not reuse the old seal, it probably ripped off the retaining ridge...

 

[trxxx250r]

I would check compression before pulling motor. I prefer to use the ARS seals from WSM or the OEM. I would not reuse the old seal, it probably ripped off the retaining ridge...

Ok, thanks!

 

[trxxx250r]

Here are pics of the pushed out outer seal and disassembly of the motor via photobucket -

http://s893.photobucket.com/user/trx...?sort=3&page=1

Curiously though, the inner seal was perfectly in tact. Maybe pressure blew thru the inner portion of the inner seal and it stayed in place but it popped the outer one out...?

One good thing is I see no signs of heat. Also, I thoroughly inspected the motor and there wasn't any sign of leakage of fuel or water anywhere. I'm pretty stoked about that, that motor build was tight!


Btw - What is the purpose of the double seal? Is there something other than the obvious, double protection? I've never seen that on any other motors I've worked on... I think it's smart but is their a particular reason unique to PWC?

Please all techs look at the seals and their orientation and let me know if they were installed correctly. Personally I don't see how they could not have been because the grooves in the case only allow for one way to install them. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway, if you see anything else I need to pay attention too, please let me know. I have a really crappy job of cleaning all the surfaces yamadond 4 and thread sealant but I've bean treating it with chemical to help soften it up. Any suggestions on what works best to remove it?

One thing I've been fighting with is trying to get all the crank bearings to sit down on their pins as I've tried test fitting it before I put the new seals in. I've not been able to do it, it's fighting me big time. Is this a major PITA because the pistons are on it??? Is there any suggestions you guys have to help with this?

Thanks, Darryn

 

[trxxx250r]

Here are some more pics of exactly the order and orientation of the seals. I didn't reinstall them back on the crank but just put them over the end of the crank for illustration purposes. I also put them in the bottom crankcase half as well in the order they were actually installed.

The bitch was, there were no instructions or indicators anywhere as to how these went in so I just looked at the service manual diagrams and the OEM diagrams and it looked like I had it right plus that seemed like the only way they fit perfectly in the grooves.

If I got it wrong, live and learn I guess.

Can you tell me the exact order and orientation in which they go?

Also, I got new WSM (ARS) seals that are made in japan and supposed to be as good as OEM. The seals I used last time were from their full motor kit and they are a lesser quality than the ARS.