Custom/Hybrid Planning a PFP waterbox build...cause I'm cheap

[Cannibal]

Interesting project but those HTS-2000 brazing rods were made for small repair jobs and not a structural part that will see a lot of vibration and exhaust pressure. Those rods are made basically from aluminum and a zinc mixture. More zinc is added than with any conventional aluminum alloy to lower the melting point to less than that of aluminum so that the brazing rod will flow long before the aluminum gets hot enough to melt. If you want the part to last you'll need to use a 4043 filler alloy and TIG or MIG weld it IMO.

Hmmm, interesting. It sure contradicts what they advertise (of course they are trying to sell you something).

"When drawn over heated aluminum, HTS-2000 penetrates the aluminum oxide, creating a molecular bond that is stronger than the original commercial aluminum. Electrochemical corrosion is never a problem, because the electrode potential between HTS-2000 and aluminum is so slight. HTS-2000 joints last permanently in normal or protected environments. They will endure 10 years or longer under severe conditions. HTS-2000 joints are evaluated as permanent, corrosion resistant, and stronger than joints made by heli-arc machines and all other brazing rods tested."

It does say the material has to get to a certain temp to open the pores of the metal for penetration.

I'll probably give it a try just for the experience, or at least do some test pieces. If I'm not happy with the results, I'll have it tig'd up.

 

[Twinturbostang]

Just got my system yesterday and mocked it up. I tell ya, that resonator fits in my hull so well, I'm half tempted to just run it for now and worry about building a box later.

If I do build it, I will have to build my adapter to go from my Kawi cyl to the PFP (no Rad Dudes, I don't want to buy yours) first so I get the spacing correct.

I'll update this when I get to that point.

Your time seems to worth nothing like you have made clear here. So let me know when you want a job. We pay a touch over nothing so you should be happy.
(Joke)

Good job on the design, but dont count out water inj in the box that will drop the sound way down and not hurt the power.

Also after seeing 4 or 5 of the powerfactor water boxes break welds and blow out making one seems like a good idea.

 

[kevbo]

Flat aluminum plate construction will not last very long. Fiberglass will last until a strong afterfire. A large two chamber box will do a good job of muffling noise, even when completely dry. There is not much room for one of these so I would make one chamber up front to relieve peak pressure and a baffled tube running out the back.

 

[Cannibal]

Your time seems to worth nothing like you have made clear here. So let me know when you want a job. We pay a touch over nothing so you should be happy.
(Joke)

Good job on the design, but dont count out water inj in the box that will drop the sound way down and not hurt the power.

Also after seeing 4 or 5 of the powerfactor water boxes break welds and blow out making one seems like a good idea.

I wondered when one of you guys would catch that...lol. When it comes to my own time for me, ya, I don't value it very high. Nobody pays me to watch TV from 6-10pm, so why should I count my time as money working on my ski as fun? Many times though, my money saving ideas end up costing more in the end.

I ordered up the material, we shall see.

Flat aluminum plate construction will not last very long. Fiberglass will last until a strong afterfire. A large two chamber box will do a good job of muffling noise, even when completely dry. There is not much room for one of these so I would make one chamber up front to relieve peak pressure and a baffled tube running out the back.

That maybe true about the flat plate construction, but it's cheap and fits.

That is a good idea about the baffled tube, and I did consider making a 1 chamber free flowing design AND using the supplied resonator. The resonator tube is 2.5" od with 1.32" inside the baffles.

The thing I don't like about a 1 chamber is the back flow potential. With a 2 or more chamber, you can create an air trap. I should also say that I have anther variable in my design that many other hulls do not have. My through hull exhaust tube is straight, where a stock SJ/SXR terminates above the water line and then the long hose usually rises even more toward the hood lip.

If it doesn't work, I'll go back to the drawing board and see what else I can come up with.

 

[Cannibal]

Alright, picked up the AL Friday, most of it cut to size, $20.

Spent 2 hours making the holes, cutting the tube, then fit up.

I ended up with a different design. I did a single baffle design similar to stock and A/M boxes. I did change the exit so it ends above the bond line, then when I add the 45* elbow to it, it will actually be close to the hood lip. This will help with the back flow issue I was concerned with.

I still haven't played with the brazing rod, but my step dad said he'll just TIG it up for me, it will take him all of about a half hour.

 

[lazyt747]

That's looking really nice.

 

[keith t]

the exit pipe is really high up, will it not foul the carbs ? - and the hose will have to go through a large angle to meet the bulkhead fitting ?

 

[ChadGnarly]

Lookin good, would love to see some back to back performance testing, my PFP waterbox has bubbled almost exploded from a bigback fire. It is still holding strong but a stronger alternative would be great.

Id trade ya a Kawi conversion plate for a re-designed box? Haha

 

[Cannibal]

the exit pipe is really high up, will it not foul the carbs ? - and the hose will have to go through a large angle to meet the bulkhead fitting ?

Good question. The box will be laying at a bit of an angle in this SXR hull (the hull sides are not straight like a SJ), so the exit is between the carbs and the hull.

Since everything is at a 45* angle, the outlet of the box will have a 45, a straight length of pipe, a 45 that angles down toward the exhaust tube, a short section of tube, and finally another 45 to meet the exhaust tube. I could get rid of the middle 45 by having the chunk of tubing cut and welded at a 45, and may go that route once mock-up is done.

Lookin good, would love to see some back to back performance testing, my PFP waterbox has bubbled almost exploded from a bigback fire. It is still holding strong but a stronger alternative would be great.

Id trade ya a Kawi conversion plate for a re-designed box? Haha

I had considered installing a flange on one of the sides and making it removable so the box could be modified. It makes it a failure point and adds to the cost and weight, so I'll just have to see how it performs.

Haha, I can't very well trade you something that isn't tested in good faith, plus this one is pretty much made for my application. One of the original designs should be a direct replacement. If I do make a couple, I'll get one to you guys for testing, though with your resources and the pics I've posted, I'm sure you could whip one up.

 

[dirtnut99]

Oh just what you needed, another project... Lol


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[Cannibal]

Haha, just gave it to Dave. He's going to TIG it all up for me in the next couple days.

I don't plan on making more any time soon, would be a good winter project though if this thing works out.

 

[KTM434]

Have you tested this yet?

 

[sicksxr07]

In original form I don't see why pf even added that second 1 inch tube if they were planning blocking it with the inlet tube. Almost completely blocking it off. This to me helps explain why they look like footballs after a backfire. All that pressure going thru one 1 inch tube.

In my box I cut back the inlet tube too allow full flow. And slash cut the outlet tube to hopefully keep fully submerged in water for a quiet ski.

 

[KTM434]

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In original form I don't see why pf even added that second 1 inch tube if they were planning blocking it with the inlet tube. Almost completely blocking it off. This to me helps explain why they look like footballs after a backfire. All that pressure going thru one 1 inch tube.

In my box I cut back the inlet tube too allow full flow. And slash cut the outlet tube to hopefully keep fully submerged in water for a quiet ski.

Nice job man! How does it run now compared to before? (power and noise output)
Did you take it apart to fix damage from a backfire or to improve the design afte a backfire caused damage?

 

[sicksxr07]

havent run it yet . modified to fit in my q8 . and upon opening it up found that.
my q8 has now been sold so wont know till spring. but it sure cant be worst..

 

[KTM434]

havent run it yet . modified to fit in my q8 . and upon opening it up found that.
my q8 has now been sold so wont know till spring. but it sure cant be worst..

Damn dude, what's next? I did t see it advertised, is it staying local?

 

[Cannibal]

Have you tested this yet?

In a hurry to get it on the water and broke in before Surf Slam, I did not. I need to modify it just a bit to fit in this SXR hull. I am running the resonator for now.

Once I get the box modified and tested, I'll update this.

 

[vshockey10]

Good call on building your own box. I had to put an extra $65 into my PFP waterbox because it is such a POS. I have a thread on here somewhere about it

 

[Joe Dart]

So how did the waterbox work out? Have you ran the ski yet?