T-bone
brraap....thats so 2002
the only way to go......mx or pwc....or 2 stroke road racer ......
Pro X / Wiseco Pistons
- Thread starter SJet
- Start date
the only way to go......mx or pwc....or 2 stroke road racer ......
jeepmark4x4
Backflip, weeee
- Location
- Marietta, GA.
I thought that was the rule too. Forged anything is just that much stronger! Well if your running alot of compression advancing the timing is a no no, thats when you get pre-ignition (detination). Personally I like the flat top wiseco pistons, So i wouldnt have to worry about quench when upping the compression. I'm about to run my stock 6m6 into the ground and run 100 octane, leaded is the only way to go, burns slower... well see how good stock really is! :Banane01: :Banane01:
Ok, I'm gonna throw a spanner into the works here. Although I've used Wiseco, Pro-X and Sudco's with no problems, has anyone used these, or is it best to forget about them all together?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Two-...003QQitemZ130042706602QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
A mate is looking for a cheap set, but I have reservations about these ones!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Two-...003QQitemZ130042706602QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
A mate is looking for a cheap set, but I have reservations about these ones!
w-nut
x2 nut
- Location
- christchurch new zealand
here you go pete this is wot a forge piston looks like instead off shatering and crumbling into tiny peaces. this was the weisco piston in my 750 the the rings got caught in the ex port . im rebuilding my motor again right now and i am more than happy to use weisco pistons again .
ooppppsss wrong quote
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SkiDaddy
Just Havin' Fun!
- Location
- Orange City, FL
bottom line, if you want to put a lot of stress on the motor, you have to use forged pistons... cast pistons will break.... been using cast and forged,and blowing up motors for 15 years now... wisecos last the longest (if set up with the proper clearance i.e. loose) let you machine warm up for 5 minutes guys come on!
Water Worx
Sport Racer
- Location
- Sunny Fla,Ft Pierce
I have never seen a piston "crumble like a cookie".:bs2:
Mouthfulloflake
ISJWTA member #2
- Location
- NW Arkansas
I have Dan.
i posted pictures a while back on the OTHER site, of my 750sx, with WSM pistons.
it looked like aluminum chowder.
in fact use that search term there, it SHOULD turn up.
" aluminum chowder "
:biggthumpup:
Legdragger
Bringing it back
- Location
- New Hampshire
Hmmmm......cookies......
I've been reading this thread, and could someone explain how a forged piston makes more hp than a cast piston if they are designed to the same dimensions. Please don't say one is lighter therefore it revs quicker therefore it makes more power, that will just show you don't know what your taking about. Anyone with actual dyno experience? Also, in a modified engine why would a hypoeutectic piston outlast a hypereutectic? What you are discussing has more to do with the intension of the engine than its power output.
kawishaul
I bleed GREEN!
- Location
- lake City, FL
can anyone answer the question?
- Location
- Denver, NC
Reviving an old agrument are we?
I don't think the argument is that forged produce more hp than cast, but that they can withstand more. Yes lighter = less rotating mass = more output hp, but depending on the particular piston this may be trivial.
Eutectic is not part of this argument. I assume all cast PWC pistons are a eutectic alloy. The question of wear and longevity is based on hardness. The cast alloy of oem and prox is fairly brittle and hard. Forged pistons are not quite as hard, but due to their uniform grain flow are much stronger. Harsh running conditions, high compression, deto etc are more likely to fracture a cast piston where there may be no effect on a forged piston. However, because a cast piston is harder it will hold up better in a less than perfect bore, whereas the softer forged piston will deform more easily. Basically, a cast piston is more tolerant of mistreatment and will run longer on a slightly damaged bore, but a forged piston will theoretically last longer in a good bore and will definitely hold up better to deto etc.
Also, cast piston pieces, because of their lack of grain uniformity, when broken off will be prone to disintegrate as they tumble in the engine creating a hard sand that loves to ruin everything. A forged piston is much less likely to actually fracture and lose a piece. If it does, that piece is more likely to remain intact or largely intact as it tumbles around until it finally is expelled, and being a softer metal, less likely to cause the same degree of damage.
I don't think the argument is that forged produce more hp than cast, but that they can withstand more. Yes lighter = less rotating mass = more output hp, but depending on the particular piston this may be trivial.
Eutectic is not part of this argument. I assume all cast PWC pistons are a eutectic alloy. The question of wear and longevity is based on hardness. The cast alloy of oem and prox is fairly brittle and hard. Forged pistons are not quite as hard, but due to their uniform grain flow are much stronger. Harsh running conditions, high compression, deto etc are more likely to fracture a cast piston where there may be no effect on a forged piston. However, because a cast piston is harder it will hold up better in a less than perfect bore, whereas the softer forged piston will deform more easily. Basically, a cast piston is more tolerant of mistreatment and will run longer on a slightly damaged bore, but a forged piston will theoretically last longer in a good bore and will definitely hold up better to deto etc.
Also, cast piston pieces, because of their lack of grain uniformity, when broken off will be prone to disintegrate as they tumble in the engine creating a hard sand that loves to ruin everything. A forged piston is much less likely to actually fracture and lose a piece. If it does, that piece is more likely to remain intact or largely intact as it tumbles around until it finally is expelled, and being a softer metal, less likely to cause the same degree of damage.
Octane_114
LeT tHe gOOd tImEs RoLL
- Location
- Charleston S.C.
Yes lighter = less rotating mass = better throttle response, not more hp. i run a 743sx sp kawasaki. its set up stock bore, cleaned up ports/port matched whatever you want to call it. balanced every thing i could, (pistons,flywheel,crank,drive shaft,impeller,) made sure i had it bored correctly, little polish work to under side of the wiseco pistons (which i run in everything i can) and piston stuffers. it performs very well as its package.
you can take this for what you want. when you heat aluminum it swells... (FACT) i pre-heat my pistons before i install them. (this also allows you to run a closer/tighter tolerance) break in as wiseco advises. i have built a few engines, just saying what has worked for me.
you can take this for what you want. when you heat aluminum it swells... (FACT) i pre-heat my pistons before i install them. (this also allows you to run a closer/tighter tolerance) break in as wiseco advises. i have built a few engines, just saying what has worked for me.
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Can you explain how heating a piston before you install it allows you to run a tighter piston/bore clearance.
Chris.
Chris.
Octane_114
LeT tHe gOOd tImEs RoLL
- Location
- Charleston S.C.
CHRIS,
i measure the piston before and after its heated. once you now the size then you have it bored and you can make it closer because its not going to swell as much. i've used wiseco's for 10years. outboards, pwc 1 small block chev.
i'm sure i'm not the only 1 that has thought of this. wiseco is a great piston, they have been for me. i've metaled them burnt holes in them but it was all off my set up. you havent learned anything if you have tore something up to a point.
i measure the piston before and after its heated. once you now the size then you have it bored and you can make it closer because its not going to swell as much. i've used wiseco's for 10years. outboards, pwc 1 small block chev.
i'm sure i'm not the only 1 that has thought of this. wiseco is a great piston, they have been for me. i've metaled them burnt holes in them but it was all off my set up. you havent learned anything if you have tore something up to a point.
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