RN Tray Help!

[mikidymac]

So just got a RN hull from an inmate here. First off super nice guy and was very honest so I’m not bashing him at all.
That being said the tray is a mess and delaminating. Looks like cheap resin was used and pretty poorly applied. They didn’t stop at the stock gel coat line at the rear and I can pull the glass off the sides, front of the tray and around the footholds.

So what I want to do is return the tray to stock without holds too. How do I proceed?

I don’t think any of the stock tray cutout is there. I think they might have cut it out and just glassed their mods. So to create a new tray what cloth and how many layers should I use? How can I replicate the stock rear transition step from the gelcoat to the mats?

I am going to use West Systems Epoxy resin. I have done a lot of glass repairs and even rebuilt entire engine mount platforms on Seadoo’s but never anything this square area wise. Any help is appreciated.

 

[jonolove]

Ouch hopefully you got a deal

 

[mikidymac]

The deal isn't as good as I hoped after finding this but you take a chance with anything used. Either way it is my problem to correct now.

 

[SuperHumanJetski]

you'd almost be better off cutting your loses and getting a new hull. That's the worst fiberglass work i've ever seen.

materials alone are going to be very expensive if you do it properly let alone a tonnn of labor.

I have 2 rn hulls for sale if you're interested. only problems is that im in michigan so would have to ship.

Sorry this happened to you...

 

[jonolove]

Get a kit from Derrick to widen the tray and put in ninja footholds i think his kit is around 300$ its probably the easiest way to fix your tray its not hard to install refoam and done

 

[mikidymac]

I am already into this one so I would like to fix it but you might be right. I have seen people here completely cut the rails off and thin them out and change the shape of the deck so it must be possible to repair this one I would think?

 

[Vumad]

I am already into this one so I would like to fix it but you might be right. I have seen people here completely cut the rails off and thin them out and change the shape of the deck so it must be possible to repair this one I would think?

Don't cut off the bond rail. Yes it is repairable. I wouldn't put it back to stock. Remove the crap and decide if you need to cut your losses (that's more about your lost ride time than the cost of repairs imo). Decide what kit you want and put in new holds correctly. 3:1 laminating epoxy and 1208 biax is my preferred materials. I am probably going to do the Rickter holds as they seem to be of the quality I prefer, but I'm not taking my Superjet apart until I'm happy with my B1, so I haven't actually done a tray yet.

 

[mikidymac]

Thanks Vumad! I am only going to remove what I need to. I would prefer to not have holds as I am actually wanting just a stock ski for a little money as possible. 90% of my time will be at a local lake having fun with the family.

I think at this point I need to just get the mess out and see where my new starting point will be and what is salvageable.

 

[jonolove]

Its not hard to reglass the tray its definitely salvagable

 

[mikidymac]

That’s what I’m thinking John. I would just like someone to help on what to use for example 4 layers of 1708 on the tray and 4 layers of 1208 on the sides. Just looking for materials and layers.

 

[jonolove]

@sinisterjosh209

 

[tom21]

its hard to tell from the pics but it looks like the center of the tray is still there. I would start at the hole and sand/grind into the tray from there. It looks like there is some blue gelcoat under there. what typically happens is guys cut the holds out and install them and then glass over the tray. the turf edge may still be intact along the back slope too. its nasty work, I use a 90deg mini air grinder with a 36 grit, then smooth it with a D/A and 80 grit. it looks like it failed to hold by the fact you can peel it up due to using a cheap poly resin instead of epoxy.

gelcoat is kinda hard to match perfectly and since most of what you are fixing is under turf its costly to purchase it for a few square inches, maybe consider a few racing stripes on the back end?

I'm not sure you can even purchase the original mats, even if you could it would prob be way more expensive compared to hydro turf let alone make it comfortable to ride.

so worst case scenario, the tray has been removed, you will have to make some patch pieces for the gunwhales so make a few more for the tray. some body on here has to have a stripped down tray. You can get dimensions from them to recreate your own, or have them pull a thin mold from theirs and then lay up a new one for yours, or go custom which is just extending the main tray, extending the rail and fig out where and how long you want the slope between the 2 to be.

Ive done this before and have taken 2 paths to finish this depending on where the repair is and how flat I wanted it to be. since you cant repair it from the back side you will have to make your bond on the inside of the tray and this will make a bump which you will def notice especially if you use that thin stock rubber and no pad!

you could also make some 2 inch wide strip of glass and epoxy them on the back side and then epoxy your patch pieces over making a flush repair but I really doubt that will be strong enough to last, you will have to add some glass over the top but not nearly as thick as just the top only repair. this is a bit more work and depending on what you decide on for turf maybe overkill. someplace like the top of the gunwhale is where I do that or if its absolutely critical to have the side of the gunwhale smooth I would do it there but not on the bottom. but then again if you cover the entire tray floor it will not have the repair bump. that is just a lot of glass and weight added.

Use epoxy and while I would make the patch panels from 1208 or 1708 with 2-3 layers, I like using a thinner cloth to do the topside repairs. 10 oz with 2-3 layers depending on where it is or something thinner like 7 oz maybe even 4oz in some places but you will need to add more layers obviously.

this repair is not that big of a deal. the real work as with any job is in the prep, which is removing all the glass from the foothold install. no matter what you do you have to remove all that and at that point its prob gonna be making 2 foothold shaped patches and glueing them it. Oh and don't forget to refoam!! the last thing you want is for that cavity to be filled with water, lol what a heavy pig that would be.

 

[Vumad]

Thanks Vumad! I am only going to remove what I need to. I would prefer to not have holds as I am actually wanting just a stock ski for a little money as possible. 90% of my time will be at a local lake having fun with the family.

I think at this point I need to just get the mess out and see where my new starting point will be and what is salvageable.

A big advantage to holds is they widen your stance to shoulder width which is better on your physically. The stock tray width (hip width) contributes to some very negative body mechanics. It's your body weight but under some amount of additional force. Try squatting with a barbell that is close to your weight with your feet only 2" apart. The extra load on your back is substantial as it limits your hip motion. Try again feet 12" apart.

 

[Vumad]

This post Tom21 just bumped from Jan doesn't have much info but it hits on the ergo topic.

http://x-h2o.com/index.php?threads/returf-but-want-to-widen-the-tray-first.188163/

 

[mikidymac]

Thanks for the help Tom and Vumad! I think I am going to get into it this weekend if the family will allow then I can see exactly what I have to work with. I am already into this thing and not going to give up on it. With the exception of the tray everything else is in great shape on this ski.

I think my plan is to......
1. See what is still left in the tray under the mess.
2. Defoam and make sure all the through hull fittings have a ton of 5200. I have no confidence they sealed anything.
3. Remove the XScream scupper.
4. Refoam with Home Depot in the bottom.
5. Refoam with 2 part 4lb pour foam from US Composites over the pink foam and sides so I can sand to shape to get the stock form back.
6. US Composites Epoxy resin, 4 layers of 1708 on the tray floor. 3 layers of 1208 on the sides. 1 layer of something light and tight over the entire thing to waterproof.
7. I am going with hydroturf, not stock turf.

I will either turf around the side corners to cover the mess they did to the gelcoat. Or paint the ski, my original plan was to paint it white and put the 2018 decals on it anyways.
I will decide if I want footholds once I get into the mess.

Does this sound like the proper materials and plan?

 

[mikidymac]

I was able to get into it a little yesterday. The left side isn’t that bad but for some reason they really cut back the right. Foam was a little wet and the glass was very thin and not much resin.

 

[fastgtfairlane]

definitely salvageable for sure. fiberglass work isnt too difficult you just need to know the process to follow and do some research on the product you use. id also recommend purchasing a how to book from west systems. it has some great info regarding their products and how to properly choose the right product for the job. id say west systems is probably the best epoxy out there but also one of the most expensive. digging out all the old foam is the worst part of it. once you get the majority of the foam out you can use a pressure washer to remove the rest. 12oz biax is definitely strong material however it is more difficult to work with and uses a lot of resin to properly wet out. i personally like the 8-10oz s glass as it is very strong and light weight and wont take as much resin. you want to use just enough resin to wet the fabric. too much resin makes for a weaker, more brittle finished product and also heavier. ive read its better to use more layers of a thinner cloth and build it up as it is easier to work with and easier to wet out properly. i definitely wouldnt use the mat as it doesnt work as well with epoxy resin according to west systems. for refoaming you can use the two part foam or go with closed cell foam block you can buy at home depot or lowes. whats cool about it as it doesnt hold water like the 2 part foam does so you wont have to worry about waterlogging the tray again. then just put a hull drain and any water that does get to the foam you can drain it out after each ride. obviously the 2 part foam will be easier to fill the tray with as you just pour it and let it expand then trim to the shape you want.

 

[mikidymac]

Thanks Fast! I have done a lot of glass repair over the years but nothing this big. The more I have thought about it the more of a plan I have now. I am going to do my best to recreate the stock tray from scratch and if it all goes bad I will just cut it out and install the new Krash wide tray kit as that is about how far mine has been cut back anyways. I haven't been on a standup in 20+ years so I have never used footholds and won't know what I am missing. Plus, I will probably only ride surf a couple times a year and won't be doing anything crazy anyways. I figue getting all the materials will be about $200 so I am still going to be way cheaper than buying a complete ski here in California.

 

[mikidymac]

Wow! I can't believe this thing has been stinking up my garage for almost a year now.

I just placed my order with U.S. Composites so hopefully I can actually start posting some update pictures.......

 

[MAYDAY]

just found this thread.... thinking about starting on my tray reglass any updated pics of your process?